I know I harp on this a lot…but…

Everyone by now knows I’m a bitter paladin, right?  That’s why I play my priest.  Now, every time my bitterness wells up and I complain about a holy paladin’s utter lack of ability to cope with AoE damage, someone always chimes in with “Oh but I have a holy pally and I don’t have any trouble!”

So you know what?  Let me quote some other people.

From Anna, here:  “Healing this particular fight is pretty intensive, because the combination of Light Bombs (5 yard range, consistent AOE damage), Gravity Bombs (10 yard range, ticking bomb AOE), and Tantrums (raid wide 10% damage every second for 12 seconds, for a total of 120% health on everyone in the zone) makes for a lot of unhappy consequences when someone screws up.  It’s also tough to heal as a Paladin, since AOE/Group healing *shines* in this fight.”

And from BoK: “As for Ulduar, the only thought I have is that there seems to be a lot of raid damage. We went in there with 4 Holy paladins, a Disc priest, and 2 Resto druids and it was pretty painful until we added a Resto shaman. As well, Flash of Light is almost totally useless now. It isn’t even strong enough for raid healing! I was half-tempted to just remove it from my cast bars. Also, I really miss multiple Sacred Shields.”

And a repeat for emphasis: Flash of Light is almost totally useless now. It isn’t even strong enough for raid healing! … Also, I really miss multiple Sacred Shields.

Now think about raid healing with Holy Light for a moment.

Obviously we’re still great tank healers.   If you Beacon yourself and heal the tank, you can usually comfortably ignore all else and focus on your target.  This is great!  I’m not saying we’re not great healers…in certain contexts.

To touch on a previous rant:

But remember the whole “Bring the player, not the class” line?  What if the only 3 healers you’ve got for your 10s, for one reason or another, are paladins?  Or two paladins and a disc priest?  Hell, even two paladins and any other AoE healer.  Are you actually going to be able to cope, without overgearing the instance?  I understand that 25s are a different kettle of fish, so I’m not talking about those here.  Just the 10s.  I’ve healed Maly10 with two paladins and a disc priest…but that was pre-3.1, when I used my Sacred Shields to soften the blow during Vortex and disc priests were perpetually at 95% mana.   Could they do that now, or are people going to be sidelining paladins in favor of other classes?  Classes,not players.  Even a disc priest has far greater AoE healing capability (and AoE damage mitigation!) than a paladin.  Hell, a disc priest can dual spec holy and still raid if they want to.  

I’m pretty unhappy about how thoroughly pigeonholed holy paladins are a healers.

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  1. #1 by dorgol on April 17, 2009 - 11:52 am

    Yeah, when I read some of these raid encounters I was feeling the same frustration I had when H MgT was added.

    Our guild should be making our first Ulduar25 tonight, so I should be getting first hand experience. That is, assuming I’m not asked to sit out.

  2. #2 by Khaeli on April 17, 2009 - 12:54 pm

    if a holy paladin’s “niche” is tank healing, then i don’t see why people are shocked that going into a progression raid renowned for massive AOE damage with 4 paladins and a disc priest results in problems.

    i’m also not surprised to see holy paladins nerfed. in almost every raid i’ve done in wotlk, a holy paladin has been at the top of the healing meters. even though they’re assigned to heal the tank, their healing output far surpasses other classes — even those assigned to raid healing. with the overabundance of spellpower plate that dropped in Naxx, i saw holy paladins almost entirely geared after one or two raids. with easy access to haste and spellpower and an endless mana supply, holy paladins have been godlike — in PVE and PVP.

    Yeah, it sucks to have one’s class nerfed. I get that.

    Yeah, it sucks to be faced with AOE damage when it’s not your class’s forte. As a disc priest, I get that too.

    But Naxx was also incredibly easy and you could waltz in with virtually any raid composition (7 healers, 15 DKs anyone?) and be successful. I think folks have forgotten that sometimes you do have to compose the raid carefully during progression fights.

    Oh and “bring the player not the class” has been bullshit since the get-go.

  3. #3 by Ambrosyne on April 17, 2009 - 1:54 pm

    Khaeli – I just see the boxing in of paladins in such a way as being counter to their “bring the player not the class” spiel. Also, until you got to that gear point you were not “godlike” in any situation in which AoE damage was involved.

    If they weren’t harping the bring the player bullshit I’d mind a little less. And EVERY OTHER HEALER has the flexibility-paladins don’t. How is that “fair”? I’d be content with being much less “godlike” if I could do away with experiences like…oh…not being able to heal MgT when it came out.

  4. #4 by BBlut on April 17, 2009 - 2:27 pm

    Ulduar healing is brutal healing on pallies, it’s true. As the raid leader of my guild and a holy paladin all through TBC/sunwell I was fine with just healbombing and keeping our tanks alive. But jesus I’m tired of all the aoe damage and our limited capacity to deal with it. It’s why at the start of wotlk I went prot (dual spec ret) and haven’t looked back. So for all you holy pallies fighting the good fight, keep it up, and hopefully someday our lack of aoe healing gets adressed.

  5. #5 by Khaeli on April 17, 2009 - 2:55 pm

    The “bring the player” mantra was really given as Blizzard’s initial justification for the massive homogenization of classes (something I’m not particularly thrilled about). I don’t think they ever meant that you could just assemble a random group of folks and expect to succeed at all raid encounters. You do still have to weigh what classes you want to bring.

    If you don’t want to be a tank healer, then don’t play a holy paladin or disc priest. If you think raid healing sucks, then you’re likely to be quite unhappy as a resto shaman. And if you’re in Ulduar as a holy paladin and find yourself having to shoulder the weight of AOE damage, it’s not really a problem of your class’s ineffectiveness at raid healing as much as a problem of your raid composition.

  6. #6 by Kestrel on April 17, 2009 - 2:58 pm

    Before 3.1, I’d have sold half my soul for a Holy Pally. Now, with my ability to go Disc at the push of a button, and with the other well-geared and capable holy priests in my raid, I could care less about a healadin, but what I wouldn’t give for a couple Resto Shammies & Druids (we have one of each, plus a dual-spec Moonkin/Tree).

    Help!

  7. #7 by kavika on April 17, 2009 - 3:10 pm

    The problem is that any encounter can be healed by other classes, while paladins are only good for some encounters. That’s just plain not freakin fair. I mean, we were already having difficulty with AoE damage, the THEY TOOK AWAY TWO OF OUR AoE MITIGATIONS! (HL glyph not critting, and sacred shield on multiple targets, which were mediocre at best anyway…but wth? They make the encounter MORE difficult AND they nerf our only tools to deal with it?)

  8. #8 by HP on April 17, 2009 - 6:25 pm

    I wish they didn’t pigeonhole paladins too but I don’t have the luxury of switching to a new main, plus I am attached to my pally… I will still try my best to get by in Ulduar though…

  9. #9 by Luiniel on April 19, 2009 - 2:54 pm

    Meh!

    I’m a little surprised by this QQ, since my wife (a Holy Paladin, at times) frequently outheals everyone else in raid-healing situations and has much more hps or hpm out of her Flash of Light than I (as a holy priest) do out of my Flash Heal (and I’m all in 213 epics, so…).

    The other a bit surprised is at taking three healers into Malygos — we take two and have difficulty with the dps sometimes. I’ve healed that fight with each of the other three classes (shaman was the worst) and not had a problem.

    What she’s complaining about is losing Spiritual Attunement…

  10. #10 by Pixelated Executioner on April 19, 2009 - 3:34 pm

    I see a lot of comments regarding “Paladins outhealing everyone on raids” or “Paladins always leading the healing meters at the end of the night” but nobody ever really stops to think about why that is.

    Having played a holy paladin myself, it’s not hard to excel on the healing meters when your bread-and-butter heal spell has a 1.5 second cast time (even less with certain talents and haste rating). If you’re the kind of person who thinks that the people leading the healing meter are the ones doing the best job HANDS DOWN and WITHOUT A DOUBT regardless of the situation, I will politely ask you to shut up and leave the meter analysis to those who understand the mechanics of the raid and all the healers involved.

    Healers typically have two roles. Tank healing, and raid healing. If someone with big heals is constantly healing the tank, naturally they’re going to be on the top of the list at the end of a fight (or at the end of a night) if the raid healers have little or nothing else to do. Does that mean your raid healers are bad players? Of course not. It means that the rest of your raid did their job by staying out of the fire/void zone/insert effect that will kill you here. If a boss fight has massive amounts of AoE damage but very little direct damage on the tank, it’s obvious that the raid healers will excel, while the tank healer looks like he’s just twiddling his thumbs.

    People shouldn’t have tunnel vision in situations like this. The problem with most people having access to Add-ons like Recount or (insert your preferred e-peen meter here) is that they don’t understand the WHY of things, and instead think that because they’re on top, that they’re #1. Funny thing is, that’s rarely the case.

    Amber has a valid argument here. Beacon of Light isn’t an AoE heal, it’s a gimmick to give the illusion that there is one. If Blizzard is really going to stick with this BTPNTC mentality, then they need to start backing up their words with action.

  11. #11 by Ambrosyne on April 19, 2009 - 9:49 pm

    Pix, I think I love you.

  12. #12 by Pixelated Executioner on April 20, 2009 - 1:51 am

    Just givin’ ya a little backup, Amber. ^_^

  13. #13 by Joenutz of Bronzebeard on April 20, 2009 - 3:47 am

    I miss the multiple Sacred Shields as well.It’s not the end of the world. I did like that quote there…”Bring the player not the class”

  14. #14 by harpysnest on April 20, 2009 - 7:07 am

    It was feelings like this that inspired my move from my paladin to my shaman at the end of BT/start of the sunwell time. Sure I could manage on my paladin, but I felt I was bringing something much more worthwhile on my shaman.

  15. #15 by Kimberly on April 20, 2009 - 7:12 am

    Add me in as another pally who misses the multiple Sacred Shields. I already know I’m not the healer of choice for 5-person heroics. Taking away that little bit of damage mitigation didn’t help my case.

    “Beacon of Light isn’t an AoE heal, it’s a gimmick to give the illusion that there is one.”

    THANK YOU. I’m the only 80 holy pally in my guild and I have to explain Beacon at least twice a week.

  16. #16 by Julanna on April 20, 2009 - 10:25 am

    In our 10 man ulduar, we went in with 2 holy priests and a shammy. We were getting pummled by the hard hitting trash mobs before ignis, deconstructer and council. Our 2 priests switched to disc, and we sailed through.

  17. #17 by Dyna on April 20, 2009 - 1:13 pm

    I frequently top healing meters. I also -always- top overhealing meters.

    We brought a resto druid, a resto shammy, and me to Ulduar. We couldn’t get past Razorscale, everyone kept dying. I’m sure there’s a lot of ‘don’t stand in the shiny stuff, stupid’ going on, but I nearly had a heart attack keeping the four people I assigned myself to, alive. I feel like I need to stack haste just to keep up with the damage going on. I’m used to raid healing because we did Naxx with me (a holy paladin) and a discipline priest, but I’m quite sure that I have habits that any raid lead or healing lead in a ‘real’ raid guild would consider to be horrible.

    My point here is that we -can- raid heal, but it REALLY, REALLY, REEAAAALLLYYYYY sucks. And damn it, sacred shield wasn’t -that- powerful. Also, what’s with T8 addressing our spells that got hit with the damn nerfbat?

    I love my holy paladin. I love my holy paladin. I love my holy paladin. If I keep repeating that, will I become more effective? I hate feeling like a failure. Argh.

  18. #18 by kavika on April 21, 2009 - 9:38 am

    @ Luinel:

    Define “outhealing” because any paladin can outheal if it just raw numbers, but if you take away the overheal AND you look at how many died during the encounter, paladins are far behind the curve. There’ve been times when it was actually easier for me to purposely let a few dps die so that I have less targets to focus on instead of risking being spread all over the place and let the MT die. They need to either a.) reverse the HL glyph nerf or b.) reverse the sacred shield nerf. One or the other, because a double shot nerf like that is just too much.

  19. #19 by Masterbum on July 25, 2009 - 4:32 pm

    Using WWS Reports I am able to look at how my healers perform. I do 10 Man Ulduar with a Resto Druid, Holy Priest, and myself (Prot Pally and Holy Pally for Hard Modes/Single Tank Fights)

    On my good nights I can effectively maintain less than 35% over heal, almost always come out on top of the Holy Priest and am usually right behind the druid and once in a blue moon I come out on top.

    I have come out on the top of healing reports on fights like Hodir (I normally do not stand by a toasty fire).

    I recently removed my talents from the ret tree, and went into the prot tree for raid dmg reduction.

    My healing style is with SS always up, mostly FOL with Wisdom Judges w/haste buff from judge, when I am in a pinch for Mana I will pop avenging wrath with Divine Plea and Divine Illumination. Not very often I go oom though.

    It is extremely difficult and stressful healing with my style but it seems to do well enough for raid heals. I can solo heal aoe intense fights well enough to be competitive with a resto druid and on par with a Holy Priest.

    “Bring the Player Not the Class with Minor Exceptions”

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