OT: Hunter Rant, Ho

ETA: blah blah, Amber can’t hunter, the point is made

So, I have a hunter.  Her name is Jamethera, and for a large part of BC she was my main.  I luffs her.

She was BM then, but not just because BM was the Flavor of the Month.  No, I’ve had a BM hunter since before the first hunter talent reset-my second character ever, in fact, behind my paladin Ambrosine.   Now that first hunter was actually a russet Tauren lady who sits at level 26 to this day, but my nelfy version is old in her own right.  She was my only other max level character in vanilla, actually, because those were the days when each toon took me over a year to level.  I r scrub.

Anyway.  I raided with her in BC, sponging knowledge from Olgas, a most marvelous hunter if ever I knew one.  This was before I knew of EJ and blogs and other such things, because I was the most non-hardcore hardcore raider ever. 

“What is the hit cap, Olgas?”
“What should I gem for, Olgas?”
“Is this peice of gear good, Olgas?”

…in hindsight, I’m terribly sorry, Olgas!  Anyway, I did manage to become a good hunter, usually at or very near the top of the meters.  I enjoyed raiding with Jamethera, and was happy when I got her to 80 a week ago.

Took her to Naxx…fine, fine.  Aside from the Dance Studio, nothing was god awful for my pet, and I felt that I could perform my job fairly well.   I missed my cat Schneeflocke, who had been my companion since level 12, but the devilsaur Omnomnom amused me. 

Then…Tuesday.  I wasn’t worried about the patch, really, until a few comments from other hunters on Twitter had me rushing home to test pet DPS.

And the wolf won.  We’re talking-in my specific case-a difference of 20 DPS, but still.  A wolf out damaged a devilsaur.

Okay, what?  I’m a BM hunter!  I can tame all these awesome, unique pets!

…and if I care about doing max DPS in raids, I need to use a wolf?  What fucking sense does thatmake?  It’s a mere 20 DPS difference for me, but it’s irritating none the less.  So here’s “slap in the face” number one.  I’m a BM hunter and my end of tree talent is pointless except for 4 mother fucking talent poitns in my pet tree.  What the HELL? 

Fuckity fuck fuck.  Since I convinced my poor guild to let me take my hunter into Ulduar, I went out and tamed one of those ugly tiny-waisted level 80 wolves and trudged on in.

Do you know how many times my pet died on Razorscale?  5 times.

Do you know how many times my pet died on Ignis?  3 times before I said FOR FUCK’S SAKE and kept him near me.  You know, not DPSing. 

Now I’m familiar with the concept of yanking my pet out of shit that hurts, but there comes a point where the shit that hurts is every god damned where all the god damned time and you spend more time moving your pet around than DPSing, and what the fuck is up with that?  Razor was especially annoying because I was on turret duty and not always aware of where my mutt was stupidly standing.

A pet is a major component of the hunter class-all three specs, not just BM.  So let me get this straight, it’s okay to render part of an entire classes mechanic bloody USELESS for large chunks of the instance? 

I’m struggling to remember BC, here.  You had to be quick on the pet controls for Aran, or they’d die, and there were some other fights (o hai, High King) where you had to be pretty aware of where the hell your pet was.   Attack this target, then this one, NOT that one, and here, pull them out of whirlwind.  But it was all doableand my pet was never out of the action for lengthy periods of time.  Even in Naxx, there’s only the one fight where he’s loluseless.

Now Blizzard seems to have grown madly in love with Bad Things On The Floor.  Razor?  Fire.  Ignis?  Fire.  Trash going to IC/Kologarn?  Pokeballs.    That’s already a significant chunk of the instance where I’m fighting to hit 2k DPS when I know damn well I can over 3k because I can’t fucking use this integral part of my class.  IC on easy mode wasn’t bad-he died due to my own inattentiveness once, but management on that fight is fine.  CCL and Hodir were fine, but uh…Mim?  Yeah I can see that going WONDERFULLY.

I left the instance having done subpar DPS and feeling generally terrible about a class and spec I used to love.  I tried to coax out tanks into at least keeping mobs out of fucking pokeballs, but I was basically told “Why?  The DPS can move to the sides and moving stuff more than you have to can cause problems.”   I have to wonder if that sort of attitude isn’t why we wiped so often on IC before-you now, not getting the bosses ass entirely out of the rune?  Yeah, that.  I could just be being bitter, though. 

I don’t really want to play my hunter anymore, and that makes me sadder than anything.  It’s one thing to choose a class that isn’t optimal but at least is FUN and supposedly not that terrible DPS wise, and then find out that due to fires on the fucking floor it’s god awful DPS AND not even fun anymore.

QQ…

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  1. #1 by slytherati on September 25, 2009 - 11:26 am

    It’s always sad when a spec/class you used to love starts feeling broken and unplayable. That happened to me at the end of BC when the 3.0 patch hit and my warlock went from loleasymode 1.5k dps to something pitiful with an insane rotation. It just wasn’t fun any more. :(

    Maybe you’ll fare better shadowpriesting?

  2. #2 by shieldbreakr on September 25, 2009 - 11:36 am

    I have to agree with the “get out of the shit on the floor” strategy that seems to keep popping up in raiding lately, even new ones like Koralon and Lord Jaraxxus.

    Pets should get more immunity (even total) from pve AoE, tbh. Keeping them alive is one thing, gimping the hell out of hunter DPS because of “interesting” strategy mechanics is another. Blizzard needs to accept the fact that outside of hunter hots, no one is going to heal the pet.

  3. #3 by strumpet101 on September 25, 2009 - 12:05 pm

    I liked your QQ … I don’t want to say I enjoyed it, because that would mean I was enjoying your pain, but I totally related to your rant.

    Why make a talent tree that has unique abilities and a definite identity if it’s not going to be viable as top dps?

  4. #4 by Kotakh on September 25, 2009 - 12:11 pm

    @Shieldbreakr – What?! Any good healer should keep an eye on pets. Of course thats after making sure everyone else is healed but still…i throw lots of heal on pets because i know that losing a pets pretty much make the hunter useless.

    @Amber – I dont want to rub salt in the wound here but…i did tell you! BM hunter is not a viable raiding spec right now. Not because it can do good dps but because with the current fight mecanic the pet simply cant survive.

    I’m sorry for you and i hope Blizz will introduce something to help BM Hunter raiding…but i wouldnt hold my breath if i were you.

  5. #5 by Juzaba on September 25, 2009 - 12:16 pm

    To play devil’s advocate, not every talent tree is going to be viable in every situation. There are too many variables, and short of intense homogenization, it isn’t going to happen. Rogue Subtlety in PvE, Mage Fire in PvP, Mage Frost in PvE, Priest Shadow in PvP, etc.

    Although I agree with Amber that the issue isn’t whether or not the BM tree is viable as a top DPSer. Instead, the entire point of the tree can’t be used, because it dies. And not using the iconic part of a tree is worse than not being a viable DPS spec.

    I think Eyes of the Beast should let you do all your normal DPS while controlling the pet’s movements. Hunter doesn’t have to move in Ignis, so let the Hunter worry about the pet’s movement while still doing the DPS rotation with the buttons.

  6. #6 by Grimmtooth on September 25, 2009 - 12:55 pm

    If bosses are being tanked where your pet will die, chances are any other melee DPS is also taking damage.

    Having said that, I thought Blizz had made a change to pets so that they were immune to that crap, back in BC days. I know we had the means to train up avoidance so as to mitigate AoE damage, as well. I wonder what happened to that?

    My hunter’s on the side right now because we gots no more healers, so it’s less vexxing right now, but eventually I have to decide whether or not to shift to SV, and I don’t wanna. BM’s just more fun.

  7. #7 by fordarkness on September 25, 2009 - 12:58 pm

    um… i’ve done both survival and BM in ulduar, and while i know my pet has died on every boss at least once, there’s only two bosses that are guaranteed pet unfriendly, and that’s mimiron and yogg.

    razorscale: don’t let your pet stand in the middle trying to attack a dragon that’s in mid air. don’t let your pet attack whirlwinders.

    ignis: depending on how your tank positions the boss, pets generally don’t stand in the fire.

    XT: pets die if melee blows up near the tank.

    kologarn: if pet doesn’t bug, put it on the body and leave it. shouldn’t die if the off-tank isn’t blowing rubble up on melee.

    cat lady: pet can stand in void zones if they’re dropped on the boss. if tank repositions boss in the wrong spot, yes, pet will be out.

    hodir: i never even look at my pet on this fight. never dies.

    thorim: if you’re in the gauntlet, pet can get stuck on the platform, so dismiss it before jumping down. if in arena, don’t put it on whirlwinds. boss time, easy sauce.

    mimiron: yeah, it’s gonna eat a blast and die. keep it next to you or play pet dance the entire time.

    freya: i always go BM in this fight. i think i’ve had to rez my pet twice because she ate a snaplasher.

    vezex: put pet on boss, ignore.

    yogg: guaranteed pet death from either eating big smacky tentacles or getting blasted in the face with a green beam. go survival and have pet follow.

    i hear hunters complain about pet unfriendly fights in ulduar and i’m baffled. cause it’s not that bad. so sorry… can’t agree with 95% of your rant here. :/

  8. #8 by Ambrosyne on September 25, 2009 - 1:11 pm

    @Juzaba – I think part of my point is, “They’ve deisgned encounters that didn’t suck ass for hunters before. Why not now?”

    @Kotakh – Considering that a pet does add DPS to ALL hunter specs, regardless, isn’t this stupid issue hurting ALL hunters? Why is that okay?

  9. #9 by Ambrosyne on September 25, 2009 - 1:15 pm

    @FD – My tank does not drag Ignis out of the fire far enough. While the DPS can compensate because they are PLAYERS, my pet cannot. On Razor I was having issues because the pet would die any time I stopped paying attention to it-ie, any time I went to go slap a turret. Again, tank will often leave my pet to stand in the god damned fire.

    I have no symapthy from them-I’ve tried. Our MT is just a flaming dick sometimes, even when it’s his own god damned girlfriend asking him to change things slighty.

    Perhaps I’m just a shitty hunter now. I don’t know.

  10. #10 by shadowtycho on September 25, 2009 - 1:16 pm

    nothing wrong with BM, hunters have 2 perfectly functioning trees just like all the other pure dps classes…

  11. #11 by Ambrosyne on September 25, 2009 - 1:18 pm

    …yeah I get the point, tycho.

  12. #12 by fordarkness on September 25, 2009 - 1:29 pm

    you’re not a bad hunter hon. :) and sometimes the tank can’t compensate for players *and* a somewhat crappy AI that insists on standing in bad stuff. my pet would usually eat heigan poisons cause the tank would drag the boss just far enough that my cat’s butt would get stuck in the poison blast and she’d eat it. he started going a little bit farther to compensate for the rogues and that definitely aided my pet survivability in that fight.

    if you’re doing turrets on razorscale, call your pet back when you run back instead of leaving her to her own devices. your dps doesn’t matter if you’re doing turrets. put your pet back out when you know you can pay attention to it. some fights are far easier to just stick the pet out and ignore it while others do require more micromanagement. razor is one of them. if i’m not paying attention, my pet follows the boss instead of the trash mobs and she’ll wind up standing in blue fire. that and the whirlwind from the big boss are the two problems in there.

    in ignis, not sure what to say for it… i’ve seen tanks do different positioning and yeah, it can entirely depend on how they’re doing it. i know my pet has no problems the way my tank does it, but i’ve never actually focused on it. i send the pet in and at the end, she’s not dead, so something about the way he stood the boss made it easier.

    there are some fights out there that are completely and totally impossible for pets. i remember being in tears almost on archimonde and considering respecing because i couldn’t keep my pet alive period in that unless she was next to me and i felt like i was gimping the raid that way. in hard mode mimiron, i got squawked at because my pet was always dying or she wasn’t attacking anything and the group felt it was a dps loss (MAKE UP MY MIND!) i’ve managed to work out the dance for mimi so i can actually keep her up most of the time, but it’s still really difficult. yogg, i gave up on that. pet stays by me, if she dies, who cares, i’m surv for it anyway.

    a lot of it is practice, but some of it is the innate reflexes you get from playing a class for four years in a wide variety of raid environments. a hunter isn’t your main, so you’re probably lacking in this area. it’s not a bad thing… you should see me on my healer. i forgot i had AoE heals on hodir and instead flailed around and died. XD

  13. #13 by Ambrosyne on September 25, 2009 - 2:10 pm

    @FD – But she WAS my main, for the bulk of BC!

    Blaaaaargh.

    It’s just been a shitty, shitty week. I should go priest and stay priest until I feel better and console myself with sparkles and lasers and bubbles.

  14. #14 by randamn on September 25, 2009 - 2:10 pm

    aren’t there talents in the pet tree that deal with this specific situation? not even bloodthirsty, but other talents that lower the damage from aoe and raise the resistances towards fire, shadow, and frost. worth looking into.

  15. #15 by shadowtycho on September 25, 2009 - 2:10 pm

    some classes have a lower learning period then others, hunters are the classic easy to learn hard to master. the opposite of say ret pallies, i wish i still had the wws parse from when my raid leader bound every key on his keyboard to 4 buttons and hit 2nd on damage be rolling his face on the keyboard.

    and as for bm, and demonology to a lesser extent, i question the wisdom in letting your pet do the heavy lifting as far as dps in concerned.

  16. #16 by Adgamorix on September 25, 2009 - 2:24 pm

    Maybe now you’ll be more inclined to heal hunter’s pets?

  17. #17 by Myssidia on September 25, 2009 - 2:31 pm

    @ Amber Uhm… At least you don’t dispel on Grob? >_< /wrist /cast FAIL ANGEL

  18. #18 by Prot on September 25, 2009 - 2:45 pm

    I feel the same way about Spriests post LK, just not as much fun to play as they were before. I’m sorry to hear your hunter days may be numbered due to Blizzard not caring about player enjoyment of fun classes.

  19. #19 by Ambrosyne on September 25, 2009 - 2:48 pm

    @Adgamorix – I already do! :P

    @Prot – I idn’t play a shadow priest pre-LK, so just as well I don’t know what I’m missing?

    @Myss – That’s okay, it’s an instinctive reaction that is hard to repress. And it’s not as bad as the retardin who thought we had to kill the adds on Instructor…

  20. #20 by tytalus on September 25, 2009 - 3:12 pm

    I used to play a BM hunter in BC pretty often, but with WotLK I’ve been on my unholy spec death knight. My ghoul seems to hang in there on most fights, but then if something bad is happening to me, my next victim, er, pet is a button click away. Oh, it’s Ratleaper now? Where did Bonehead go? Ah, never mind.

    I miss Bonehead…I bet he got stuck trying to chase Razorscale…

    Do ‘smart heals’ skip pets? Or are hunter pets just too fragile these days? Are the pets not getting their buffs? My ghoul’s health pool is…not bad, really.

    But I will definitely grant that Ulduar mechanics hurt hunters in general and BM-specs perhaps the most. My S.O. plays a hunter and she just doesn’t have the knack for survival, even if it is supposedly the top dps spec.

  21. #21 by Grimmtooth on September 25, 2009 - 4:30 pm

    @Tytalus – some do, some don’t. The Frisbee won’t hit a pet unless the pet is the first one in the chain (I try to do that when I can). Holy Nova skips them completely, as does Hymn. I can’t speak for other spells since I’ve been Disc most of my priestly life.

  22. #22 by Ron on September 25, 2009 - 6:26 pm

    I find it shocking that I’m the 22nd comment yet the first to mention this… but why I am getting hunter QQ on a Friday instead of a flowchart???

  23. #23 by Derek on September 26, 2009 - 12:35 am

    After reading these comments.. is there a way to get pets to show up in grid? I’m gonna check it out next time I log in.

  24. #24 by Grimmtooth on September 26, 2009 - 9:39 am

    @Derek – For layout select the “+ pets” or something like that option, i.e. “Raid 10 + pets”. I don’t have it in front of me at the moment.

  25. #25 by Pike on September 26, 2009 - 11:18 am

    So far Mim is the only thing I’ve experienced where it was like “screw it, *specs MM*”

    BUT it definitely takes more than a few tries on a lot of the other fights to learn about pet control. I learned the hard way not to put my pet on the Snaplasher during Freya for example. Ignis is a matter of popping Mend Pet every time I get tossed in the air. It takes a couple tries to learn these tricks, but you’ll get ‘em =D /hugs

    As for the earlier comment that “BM isn’t viable”, weellll, we all know where I stand on that… ;]

  26. #26 by Pike on September 26, 2009 - 11:20 am

    @Tytalus – I know Wild Growth will snag pets, and I’m pretty sure CoH does also. Those have been lifesavers for me on occasion.

  27. #27 by ekinara on September 27, 2009 - 5:14 pm

    Chain Heal will also jump to a pet. But it jumps based on absolute value, aka pet missing 3k health gets lower priority then rogue missing 4k even if as a percentage the pet is worse off.
    I do tend to also pop a riptide or bounce a chain off the pets when i can spare the global and the cast time to do it :-)

  28. #28 by kyrilean on September 28, 2009 - 7:47 am

    Schneeflocke? And I get crap for Maedchen?!

    Sorry about the BM. Should I roll a hunter and show you how it’s done? :D Kidding!

  29. #29 by Malleck on December 11, 2009 - 6:51 pm

    Yep, this patch has pretty much told me that Blizz hates hunters. Especially BM hunters. :’(

  1. Grimmtooth's Troops » One and a half things about pets

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