Quit Your Bitching

You know the type.  “No one RPs with meeeeee.  No one loves me, they just ignore me, QQ!”

I don’t know about you, but on my RP server, I’m in 3 different OOC chat channels.  3.  Two of them can get pretty chatty, and stack /g on that and chances are good to middling that I miss stuff.   I assume that everyone else is in roughly the same situation, so if I log on and poke for RP and nothing happens, it’s pointless to get upset.  

Even if that’s not the case–whining is not going to make people want to RP with you.  Logging off in a huff isn’t going to make people RP with you. 

One of the major problems with RP servers is that new people can’t find RP.  Why is that?  Because everyone is sticking to their cliques in their little channels, perhaps?

If you can’t find RP, go make it.  Do something radical and go sit in the Park (or whatever the horde equililant is).  Yes, I KNOW the Park is Goldshire minus the naked people.  That’s because the “saner” RPers avoid it, and perpetuate the cycle.  

Sit in front of the AH and RP people watching.  Sit in Darnassus and fish.  Do something!  Not only will you increase your chance of getting RP, but you might make a new friend.  Or a new enemy! You could also make a good impression on someone new to the srever, or lift the despair of someone old on the srever who was swearing that RP was dead!  Even better yet, you’ll be around when someone else in one of your channels pipes up and asks, “Hey, anyone for RP?”

You can say “Sure, come join us in Ironforge!”  This gets a much better response than “No one wanted to RP with me EARLIER!  /emocutut.”  Fancy that.

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  1. #1 by Anna on August 11, 2010 - 11:07 am

    THIS. SO MUCH THIS.

    I was on my banker the other day, doing banker-y things, when I spied in /say a little RP that was going on. I poked my head in and said hi (As Berylla might be a respectable Gnomish Financier but she is also quite outgoing), chatted with them a bit, and went on my way.

    It wasn’t extended RP, and I’ll probably never see them again, but it made my morning. Similar thing happened when I was RPing with a new-to-the-server friend in Dalaran and we were joined by a random Draenei.

    RP is dead, my pasty white butt.

    (As an aside to this – if you SEE RP HAPPENING, SEE IF YOU CAN PLAY TOO. Obviously a deep heart-to-heart conversation is not always the best thing to bust in on, but people conversing about the weather, the guards, the auction house, whatever? Totally open for a little external conversation.)

  2. #2 by Rilgon Arcsinh on August 11, 2010 - 11:22 am

    And when people DO try to create their own RP, when they DO try to join in to stuff that’s going on spontaneously, and nothing happens because they aren’t in well with the reigning clique leader on the server, what then?

    If I wanted to roleplay by myself, I’d write the stories instead. And I do, actually, because on the RP servers I’ve been on, there isn’t anything that I can find. I even lurk in OOC channels and RP planning channels and have the “Looking for Contact” flag turned on with my RSP mod and nothing.

    And that’s just the servers I’ve been on – I’ve heard way more negative input about other servers (Moon Guard, Earthen Ring, Feathermoon) from friends of mine who’ve actively tried to seek out RP and have been frozen out by the major players on the servers to not even want to bother.

    Of course, when even my RSP description gets slammed for being a “Mary Sue” because I claimed that I have relics from Arthas’ belongings (which I DO, sup Oathbinder), there’s really no reason to bother with trying. I’m okay doing small-scale RP with my significant other, or writing stories about my character. It’s just pretty damn sad that, for all my effort, I can’t even get a toe in the damn water.

  3. #3 by Anna on August 11, 2010 - 11:51 am

    Rilgon –

    The hardest part about RP is finding a community to RP in. I’m sorry your friends had horrible experiences on my server and on Moon Guard, both places where I know excellent and friendly RPers exist. Perhaps using the resources of the internet – where I know there are good RPers who blog – could help you get that toe in the water that you’re looking for?

    As for your RSP description, people are very wary of anyone claiming highly powerful relics because it usually means (from personal experience on this one) that they’ll be RPing with someone who wants you to tell them how awesomely powerful they are, or who wants to prove how awesomely powerful they are and are MORE POWERFUL THAN YOU. Epeen can, and does, happen in RP and RSP – and often about raiding stuff – something a lot of RPers want nothing to do with, because they don’t have any desire to be told how inferior they are. All of the above, quite honestly, is offputting enough to merit my ignore list after awhile.

    RP is essentially about communication and cooperation, and nobody likes being made to feel inferior – even if it’s only by association. It automatically puts people on the defensive.

    As for RSP descriptions, turn yours off. If you want to have a super powerful relic, why does it matter if everyone can see it – and is it even realistic that you’d go around flaunting it? There’s no rule that says you HAVE to have an RSP – nor is there a rule that says you have to read them (I usually don’t). Talking about your Arthas relic assumes that others will know what it is as well – you might have better luck talking about your unusual, skull-adorned polearm. (but then you might not, as purple prose is purple). On the other hand, if you want people to fawn over your amazing relic of Arthas… well, you’re not going to like the answer.

    RP happens with you, not to you. You can’t make other people RP the way you want, and you can’t force RP to happen because you said it should. It’s a cooperative effort, and that’s what makes it hard. And if someone is being critical of your RP – figure out if there’s possibly some merit to the criticism instead of assuming they just hate your guts because you’re new, and if there is, do something. If there’s not? Move on to the next RP encounter.

  4. #4 by Gronthe on August 11, 2010 - 12:08 pm

    I rolled an alt on a RP server once, just to see what it was like. Pretty early I got invited to a guild. The GL one day logged in and told everyone to start RPing. I was a bit shy, didn’t know how to start things. All of a sudden the GL was yelling at everyone, telling all of us how we sucked and @#$#@ this and %#@*$%#$ that and on and on he went.

    I thought to myself, “insulting and cursing out your guild members probably isn’t the best way to encourage good RP”…unless that was his RP style. Personally I couldn’t tell the difference. I’ve had a couple small RP moments, they were fun, entertaining, and we all went on our merry way. I can’t ever see myself crying because nobody will RP with me, it certainly doesn’t seem like it would help my cause if I did.

    I just keep my eyes open, try not to force things, and I find that small moments just come to me. No sense in crying about something I can’t always control.

  5. #5 by Rilgon Arcsinh on August 11, 2010 - 12:12 pm

    So a character’s achievements and accomplishments should not be part of their story and who they are?

    It has absolutely nothing to do with epeen and everything to do with who Rilgon is. He’s a mercenary. He doesn’t really agree with the ideals and way the Alliance is run, but at Velen’s behest, he deals with it. He loans his bow-arm out to Stormwind-allowed militia groups for excursions into dangerous territory for the thrill of the Hunt and for the chance to learn more about this world, its workings, and the chance to possibly excavate new engineering schemata. He also wants desperately to find anything that could be beneficial to Chronormu and the rest of the Bronze Dragonflight with locating their lost Aspect, as he respects and admires the mindset and ethics they carry.

    So yes, he has powerful relics. No, he doesn’t let Oathbinder out of his grasp very often – really, only when he is at home on the Exodar. It’s almost as much a part of him as his tendrils or his various pets, or his spanner. It’s something that is a remembrance of months of hard work, sacrifice, and struggle – both in-character (the Ashen Verdict’s push into Icecrown Citadel) and out-of-character (the long time investment in my initial LK25 kill).

    Something that big a part of my character isn’t allowed to be a part of my character? That makes no sense.

    And the “you can’t make other people RP the way you want” quip is hysterically ironic, by the way.

  6. #6 by Rivs on August 11, 2010 - 12:40 pm

    If I have to sit around for hours to RP, why bother. The only RP you usually can jump in on is the ERP in Goldshire, and thanks to Blizz you might get banned for that.

    RP isn’t dead, but Good RP is. All that you have left are elitists, boring people that ask me how fake food is, and scumbags in Pornshire.

    Want good RP, go pick up a D&D book, and get 5 friends together, and leave WoW RP to the people who won’t let you in their cliques.

  7. #7 by Rivs on August 11, 2010 - 12:43 pm

    @ Rilgon – Your hate makes you powerful :)

  8. #8 by Ambrosine on August 11, 2010 - 1:22 pm

    Riv, sweetie, STFU.

    @Rilgon:
    The problem with claiming things like Oathbinder is yours is that…well…you’re not the only one who is going to have it. It creates an odd sort of disparity. Claiming any item that drops as boss loot is a…well, maybe not a faux pas, but something that is generally looked sideways at. Sure, you can do it, but be aware that it will have repercussions.

    A characters achievements are absolutely a part of their story and who they are–but it need not be trumpted. When you read Ambrosine’s RSP, you “see” a baby-faced woman with red hair and eyes hidden by goggles. She is sunburned and has caluses on her hands and probably strands of hay in her hair.

    That’s it. That’s all you SEE. You don’t know–or need to know–about how she was part of the army (ARMY) that downed Nef and Ony. You have no idea what “relics” she may or may not have. It’s there and a part of her story–but it’s something you have to learn, from HER!

    And becuase I don’t trumpet anything in my RSP or in that tentative intial RP, people come back to me. By the time they discover she’s a living DK/a noble/fought in important battles, she is a fleshed out character…and not a a trite stereotype.

    It’s kind of like how you don’t reveal all your kinks on a first date. There are plenty of people I RP with who have, ah, “questionable” characters and story arcs that are well recieved because I/we know that they can actually play it well, and are not just attention seekers.

    Sometimes you have to RP “by yourself” for awhile to draw anyone in. If you’re jsut standing there waiting for someone to notice your “looking for contact” flag and magicalyl state something out of the blue…well, what hook are you giving them? Maybe they want to, but don’t know how to start. On the other hand, sitting there and occasionally emoting about reading a book gives someone a chance to go hey, what’cha reading? Etc, etc.

    People aren’t going to hold your hand.

  9. #9 by Rilgon Arcsinh on August 11, 2010 - 1:50 pm

    Okay, except I never explicitly state that it’s Oathbinder, the former polearm of the Elven Ranger-Generals. I state that it’s a polearm that he claimed from the cache of things left behind after Arthas was slain.

    And what you fail to realize is that unless you run into Rilgon in his home (on the Exodar), he’s going to be in full combat gear. His chainmail isn’t so obtrusive (minus the helm, but he thinks the effect is neat) that it hinders his day-to-day activities, and he’s been in enough situations where he’s had to defend himself or a friend on a moment’s notice that he’s loathe to not have at least a melee weapon at immediate access. So yes, what you SEE when you see Rilgon is his battle armaments. A Draenei clad in armor modeled after the nerubian battle-scarabs. A long polearm with a razor’s edge, adorned with a small hourglass charm dangling from the end. A pair of ankle braces with booster rockets attached.

    THAT IS WHO RILGON IS. He is a marksman, and and an engineer. You’re more likely to find him on a practice field working his aim or in a smithy tinkering with some new device than at a tavern or idling around Dalaran (at least in-character). He’s not particularly complex – he enjoys life, and the Hunt, and his pets, and the pursuit of engineering knowledge.

    Ironically enough, if Rilgon IS lounging about the Exodar in more “casual” clothing, I actually do have a different RSP appearance flag that I switch to in order to note that.

  10. #10 by Ambrosine on August 11, 2010 - 2:07 pm

    Rilgon sounds like a busy man, then.

    To quote Anna, “if you never stop by the pub for a pint… you won’t have any friends at the bar.” In other words, if he’s not the sort of person to natureally be in any of those palces were random RP tends to occur then…he’s not going to see much RP then. That’s not always elitism. Sometimes you have to concoct reasons for your character to spend more time in the open.

    I had a druid character who was painfully shy. Nice concept for a novel, maybe, but utter fail in RP, so she is now one of my characters that lives on my PvP server.

    My two primary RP characters right now are far more gregarious. Lyestra enjoys the chance to get drunk on something new now and again, and is rather opinionated. She finds RP by virtue of butting right into it (and no, I don’t expect everyone to LIKE her for this). Ambrosine tries to be nice to everybody by default, so she’s my greeter of shy RPers, usually. Not everyone has a character like that, though.

    And poor Exodar. Darnassus gets more RP action than that city! :(

  11. #11 by Apple on August 11, 2010 - 2:17 pm

    @Rilgon

    No one’s saying you’re necessarily wrong – after all, we were just working off of the generic comment that he has his relic from Arthas’ possessions up until now.

    The thing is, RSPs aren’t supposed to be for information about the character or their pasts or history – it’s supposed to be to augment what you see when you look at the character. One of my RSPs is a single paragraph (very short) noting that my character has three parallel scars on her face, going from her forehead down her neck. The story behind this is that she was attacked by an animal once and those are the scars left behind from the attack, but I don’t mention any of that – just that there are scars on her face. I mention it because it’s something that doesn’t appear on the model in-game. Anything that isn’t viewable on your in-game model (greying hair, scars, callouses, the wear and tear on clothing, if they’re generally frowning, if they’re shorter or heavier or what-have-you) is what the RSP is for. Even mentioning where the weapon came from is sort of… not what the RSP is for, and it’s going to make people nervous that you’re going to start epeening about how YOU PERSONALLY killed Arthas, etc. etc.

    Now, yes, a good majority of people who use RSPs put things in them that aren’t just “physical additions to the in-game model”. I see very few that are simple physical descriptors, and I myself have been guilty of backstorying in my RSPs. But a beginning to indicating to the good RPers that you’re worth their time is to not make a big deal (and yes, mentioning it at all in your RSP is making a big deal out of it) of things like having defeated Arthas, or Kael’Thalas, or being a close ally of the Bronze Dragonflight, or what have you – even if your character has truly done all these things. If you aren’t putting them out there for everyone to see right off the bat, it’s not likely to seem like epeening when it eventually comes up in RP.

    (That said, I actually think your character sounds interesting! It’s definitely not out of the question for him to have been there and gotten a bit of loot from the aftermath of the battle. But if I saw him with an RSP mentioning anything about Arthas… I probably wouldn’t want to interact much. Too many bad experiences with epeening RPers.)

  12. #12 by Aislinana on August 11, 2010 - 2:21 pm

    I’ve given up a lot of RP in my server (Cenarion Circle) just due to the fact that I have personal problems with how a lot of RPers on my server conduct themselves OOCly or ICly. It makes it not fun for me any more and I dislike doing stuff that’s not explicitly fun, especially on my “off-raiding” hours.

    But I do not mind a little pickup RP with some people I know, like, and trust when I’m out and about in cities. My main is a very well-dressed, powerful mage and it shows that shes not really around at bars and things most of the time because she’s always on business. And I don’t necessarily need to describe that I have epics to get the gist that I have them – it’s why I don’t really wear RP clothes. It’s because she values her armor and never takes it off when “on duty.”

    I definitely ascribe to the idea that people need to go out and do something to find RP. Checking realm forums for stickies, playing out your character as you do your normal in-game business can be invaluable. I enjoy a little RP out in the wilds as it were as much as I do in cities.

  13. #13 by Bricu on August 11, 2010 - 3:02 pm

    Contrary to popular belief, the RP on Feathermoon is doing quiet well. Over the past month, we’ve had a fair amount of new people see what the Pig is about. Not everyone sticks around, but having new people come in is always fun to see.

    I’ve noticed a difference in the RPers who visit and the ones who stick around. The ones who visit and leave (sometimes in a huff) are the ones who behave as if their presence is something we should be in awe of. That kind of RP doesn’t float with the Tuesday crowd. The ones who stick around are the ones who have stories to share.

    The closest real world analogy I have for starting one’s own RP is going to a bar. If one goes into a bar and acts like an jerk to the patrons, demands to be served before the regulars, and is, in short, acts like your typical DudeBro, neither the regulars, nor the bartender, will put up with your antics. A dudebro can complain all they want about how the regulars are cliquish–that doesn’t change the fact that Dudebro was a jerk.

    IF one goes into a bar and is friendly to the regulars and the bartender, that goes a long way to being welcomed into that bar’s culture.

  14. #14 by Rades on August 11, 2010 - 3:24 pm

    @Rilgon
    (I don’t RP in WoW but play D&D regularly in real life.)

    I would think there is absolutely nothing wrong with including a reward, trophy or souvenir from your biggest victory ever in your history. Being part of Arthas’ downfall is like the biggest event IN THE WORLD. Brandishing something taken (earned) from his treasure caches is not bragging “lol look at my phat dps” but rather a trophy and a badge of honor. A character would be justifiably proud of what wielding such a weapon would imply – it’s like barbarians wearing bear-skin cloaks, hunters with animals heads on their walls, etc. It instantly says a lot about that person and what they value in life.

    Of course, you have to be reasonable and realistic. It sounds like people routinely claim ownership of LK equipment all the time and use it to wave their RP epeen around. This sucks because many would lump you in with this crowd, but there’s nothing you can do about this. If someone is sick of bad RPers constantly trolling that they have Frostmourne, or Bolvar gave them the crown and now they’re the new LK, or whatever, and they are reluctant to RP with you because they see your gear description in your RP profile…well, you can’t really blame them.

    It would be like trying to play a vampire or werewolf (not worgen) in today’s culture. Even if you are COMPLETELY sincere and earnest and have a really interesting, thought-out story and everything…you’ll simply never be able to escape the LOL WHERE IS BELLA garbage, and you’ll also probably be dismissed immediately by other RP’ers because they assume you are one of those idiots.

    It sucks, but bad roleplayers have ruined certain things for the real ones. Vampires are one. Werewolves are another. And apparently, wielders of the LK’s weapons are another. I think you either have to stick to your guns and endure the scorn, unjustified though it may be, or realize there’s nothing you can do and find some other ways to characters or express yourself.

  15. #15 by Ambrosine on August 11, 2010 - 4:09 pm

    @Rades/Rilgon – As I said earlier, you have to be willing to accept the risks.

    I play a living DK. I know that this means that some people will choose not the RP with me. Some people might instantly label me a Sue. Being a sub-80 DK Doesn’t help, either.

    Since I’ve seen many, many bad DK rpers I can’t blame them, and I accept it and move on.

    Oh well!

  16. #16 by falconesse on August 11, 2010 - 7:25 pm

    Rilgon, I’m not clear on how the polearm is explained in your RP — is the weapon ICly the singular, unique Oathbinder, or is it something that the character took from, say, an armory within the Citadel and there might be others like it in the hands of other soldiers who were there for the battle?

    Or, to put it another way, what would happen if Rilgon encountered someone who also had an Oathbinder?

  17. #17 by Velendrood on August 13, 2010 - 11:55 am

    I got a good laugh at the High Latency Life blog Rivs/therivs spawned off this blog. A little research goes a long way, and none shows. Such is the case with theerivs, its pathetic to dismiss RSP as “gearscore for RPers”. You would expect someone to take pride in their posts and do the 30 seconds of research it took me to understand what RSP is.

  18. #18 by theerivs on August 13, 2010 - 2:00 pm

    Well Velen, Do RP’ers examine someone RSP. Then if they find out something they don’t like dismiss them from RP?

    Now if someone looks at someone elses gearscore and doesn’t like what they see also dismiss them from the PUG or what not?

    The means is different, the end result the same. Exclusion

  19. #19 by Velendrood on August 13, 2010 - 2:38 pm

    The main difference I see is that RSP is opt in, where you need to set the info you want others to see. Gearscore is different, you don’t need to want to use GS for others to be able to see your GS info. Also, one has to do with your gear and is used to estimate gear level to help determine raid viability, where RSP is info you decife to share with people about your character, info you want people to see.

    Totally unrelated from my POV

  20. #20 by theerivs on August 13, 2010 - 2:52 pm

    RSP, and GS are both tools used to seprate the wheat from the chaff, how is it unrelated?

  21. #21 by Sonntam on September 14, 2010 - 2:54 pm

    @Gronthe, your story is jusy amazing. xD
    I’ve seen many retards in WoW, but amongst the RPers, this guild master really won the contest for most epic and random dumbness.

    @theerivs, you forget the fact that even gearscore has it’s uses. When I zone in as a tank, first thing I do is check my group’s gearscore. Is the healer not so well geared? Okay, then I will pull smaller groups and try to CC if it’s ICC heroics. Is the hunter’s gearscore over 5k? Then I will put Vigilance on him right away.

    Same goes for RSP. I learn how good you are at grammar, whether I like your writing style or not and what your attitude to your character is. If you don’t know the difference between a character appearance description and your backstory description and also are the son of Turalyon and Sylvannas, I will not waste my time trying to decipher your leet-speak.

    Mostly, though, RSP description leave me thinking: “Wow! This guy not only has a great writing style, but his character sounds really interesting too.” Little no player use RSP if they aren’t good at RP.

    If they don’t have RSP, I will RP with them anyway, though. I always crave for more RP and am ready to take the risk of meeting a complete RP nub.

  22. #22 by theerivs on September 14, 2010 - 10:44 pm

    Oooo let’s reopen some old wounds…

    First off I never said, those tools didn’t have their uses. I just think if you live and die by these tools, well you might be tad of a snob.

    As for RP, it’s dyeing a slow death…and this please me.

  23. #23 by Illi on September 15, 2010 - 12:05 am

    Pretty much all been covered already; RP happens with you not to you, got to participate, you won’t always find people who your RP meshes with but that’s okay just keep trying, RP is dead/alive/undead/who cares, that Riv guy is still about and still hilarious, elitist elites are still elite, Bricu is still a bad, I think everything’s been covered that I’d touch on in a full reply.

    What I’m more upset about is that that I got an article linked to as well but mine didn’t evolve into a comments discussion. I blame the blogger elitists for this. It feels like there’s some correlation here, but I don’t think I’m quite grasping it.

    Oh well. If anyone needs me, I’ll be off demolishing Orgrimmar. In game. In character. Using Garrosh as a hammer. Canon.

  1. Why Good RP is Dead. « A High Latency Life
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  4. The Daily Quest: Setting the stage for RP | Warcraft Ink

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