You are doing WHAT to my ice cubes?

MMO-Champ, in their merry datamining, dug up a teensy little change that none the less causes much flailing on my end: a 1.5 second cast time on hungering cold, which is currently instant.

Let’s do a quick review of what I use my beloved ice cubes for, shall we?

-a spell interrupt when my others are on cooldown (PvE and PvP)
-a way to stop spinny mobs of doom (PvE)
-an emergency “oh god this mob got loose HERE TANK GET IT” form of “CC” (PvE)
-a way to really piss off horde that are going for the same mining node I am (PvP) (MAI PYRITE BITCHES)
-A way to protect the flag carrier from being hounded  (PvP)
-an AoE interrupt (o hai Cho’gal worshippers)
-Randomly, just to confuse people and to bring me delight (PvE and PvP!)

I may have forgotten something, but that is my general list of Things I Use Hungering Cold for as a frost DK. I use it a lot and love it to death. It’s also, importantly, a mandatory talent–you need it to pick up Howling Blast at the end of the tree.

Do you know how many of those uses are compatible with a cast time of 1.5 seconds?

None of them. Not a single god damned one. Except maybe the confuse and delight one, but then it would throw off my rotation more and this reduce my DPS and precious e-peen.

What the fuck, Blizz?

You can go ahead and nix that change right now.  >:|

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  1. #1 by xandrion on May 26, 2011 - 11:14 am

  2. #2 by Andy/Betancore on May 26, 2011 - 2:51 pm

    I can see adding a .5 second cast time, like on War Stomp, just so it can’t be used while moving, but 1.5 is just a little bit ridiculous.

  3. #3 by david on May 26, 2011 - 5:20 pm

    Think that’s bad on its own? Check out the official notes;

    Death Knight (Forums / Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)
    Frost
    Hungering Cold now has a 1.5-second cast time.

    Glyphs
    Glyph of Dark Succor has been redesigned. Rather than placing a 15% maximum health floor on Death Strike healing while in Frost or Unholy Presence, it causes the next Death Strike within 15 seconds after killing a foe that yields experience or Honor Points to heal for at least 20% of the death knight’s maximum health.

    PVP for Death Knights (as well as quite a bit of PVE survivability) is going out the door with this change. :|

  4. #4 by Brent on May 26, 2011 - 7:42 pm

    They’re nerfing it because its too versatile and people are using it for things it was unintended for like:

    -a spell interrupt when my others are on cooldown (PvE and PvP)
    -a way to stop spinny mobs of doom (PvE)
    -an emergency “oh god this mob got loose HERE TANK GET IT” form of “CC” (PvE)
    -a way to really piss off horde that are going for the same mining node I am (PvP) (MAI PYRITE BITCHES)
    -A way to protect the flag carrier from being hounded (PvP)
    -an AoE interrupt (o hai Cho’gal worshippers)
    -Randomly, just to confuse people and to bring me delight (PvE and PvP!)

    :-p

  5. #5 by Achloryn on May 27, 2011 - 6:56 am

    Wait…Brent.. you’re saying that Blizzard sees versatility in a spell is a BAD thing? Are you kidding me? That was blizz’s biggest argument for keeping the damn thing required for Howling Blast. And they were right in that respect. It’s damn useful, not just in pvp. Blizz has made so many talent changes and such, added new talents, nixed old ones, for the sake of versatility. Why would they go against the grain and nerf this one particular spell into OBLIVION simply because it’s versatile? Cite your source on that.

  6. #6 by ILikeBubbles on May 27, 2011 - 9:50 am

    So pray tell, Brent, what WAS it intended for, then?

  7. #7 by tytalus on May 27, 2011 - 11:10 am

    50 gold says some PvP rogue whined. This is why we can’t have nice things.

  8. #8 by Kel on May 27, 2011 - 12:19 pm

    I’m hoping Brent is just trying to troll. And I would like for him to try to come up with any other good uses for the spell, if he even can.

    GG Blizz, as usual. :(

  9. #9 by Sarai on May 27, 2011 - 5:56 pm

    I’m with Amber on this. Nix that sucker right now.

    Brent just wanted an excuse to play with his copy/paste, methinks. Although I do smell trolls all of a sudden…

  10. #10 by Rachkalos on May 28, 2011 - 4:04 am

    So 4.0 dropped and everyone was wondering why on earth do we have this stupid talent that hardly ever saw any use in Wrath?

    Fast forward a couple of months and it’s such a cool thing to use to grab some breathing space when the “kiting 38 mobs at once” thing gets a little crazy – saved so many raids with it that I can’t imagine not having it!

    Now… oh dear… can’t believe they’ve ruined it. Having a cast time on Ring of Frost is okay as it’s ranged, but Hungering Cold?

    /runs off to cry frozen tears.

  11. #11 by Temnyi on May 28, 2011 - 7:40 am

    I told Amber that I would edit her post with my thoughts on it as well, as I’ve succumbed to FotM syndrome and doing arena as a frost DK lately (Rather fun and it’ll have to be hit hard with the nerfbat to dissuade me from it in season 10). Apparently I don’t have permission to edit her posts.

    Hungering Cold needed a change, but I don’t feel that this is the right way to do it. Let’s start with why HC is a problem:

    It’s an AoE blind with no cost (beyond the major glyph, which if you don’t have it, you’re doing it wrong) on a 1 minute cooldown, which can be death gripped into. Frequently, you can get an entire enemy arena team frozen. In BGs, in certain cases it can force trinket use or cause a noticable slow to the enemy team (The most egregious example is SotA, where a defending DK can run on to the enemy’s boat and HC). In PvE, with a coordinated team, it’s a frequently usable panic CC, at, again, no cost beyond a GCD and a major glyph.

    Mostly, it’s blind with half the cooldown and no target limit or resource cost, on a spec that’s already filled to the brim with immunities and caster hate.

    Now, what I know of the PTR, haste affects this. Apparently, MELEE haste affects the cast time, which is about five kinds of weird. Most DKs that have said anything about it say the cast time is between 0.5 and 0.7 seconds for them. This means that if you didn’t see it coming, or have your direction disoriented from a death grip, you’re probably not getting away in time.

    What has not been answered is if it’s interruptable, and if doing so locks out frost school. If it does cause a school lockout, as logic would say it does, then I wholeheartedly agree that this change should not go live. Currently the only combat-used cast bar a DK has is the shielded Army of the Dead, and I believe Death Gate is also shielded but frankly I’ve never thought to check that. It would make sense, then, that HC is also a shielded cast.

    This is actually something I can get behind, even if I still don’t feel it’s the right path. It’s essentially a melee only faster equivalent to RoF– Get out, or be frozen. At higher ratings, teams will be able to anticipate it and act accordingly, so it will hit them there, but at lower rating, in most BG situations, and in PvE, this shouldn’t have too much of an effect.

    Now, HC became an issue with Cata because of the glyph, which took out the hefty RP cost. It allowed it to come out of the blue. One potential nerf would be to revert that glyph, possibly removing it (Combined with Dark Succor’s change, PvP frost would probably go strang/AMS/CoI, so they wouldn’t be completely out on the streets for majors), or simply changing it in some way– Perhaps instead of removing the cost, it allows a very small amount of damage before being broken (a la frost nova and hex), or extending the PvE duration.

    But we like the glyph. So how about instead of instantly freezing, it places a short magic debuff on each target (Say, 2 seconds, just to annoy frost mages with a 3 second RoF coalesce. You gotta give me that much). If not dispelled, the target is frozen. This would actually be a stronger nerf than the cast time, to be honest, but allows better coordination among team members. In the end, this should keep it powerful at lower ratings while making it less absurd at higher ratings.

    Overall, I understand why they’re doing the nerfs they are to frost DKs, but I feel like many of them are at best band aid solutions and at worst doing next to nothing to affect PvP while hurting PvE. They don’t really seem internally consistent, so it’s hard to gauge just what Blizzard wants frost DKs to be, while at the same time they keep tight-lipped on the subject.

    Currently frost has some of the strongest immunities out there, being able to shrug off almost everything thrown at them one way or another. They’ve got a snare with CoI and a movement speed debuff on frost fever, along with, of course, death grip. Beyond unholy presence they have no speed boosts, but in most cases they don’t really need it. I love the thematic of this, giving them the feel of the slow but inevitable march of death.

    But then they have enough burst to make baby Jesus cry frozen tears, and depending on their spec either a silence with a startling 11.6% uptime or a further AoE slow proccing every time they use one of their more common abilities. They have a mortal strike which is not a mortal strike, and can be spammed to large values, while also slowing casting.

    This is a lot for one class to bring to the table, and it shows in arenas. So, a tip of my hat to Blizzard for going after one of the bigger problems, but a wag of my finger for doing so in a bad way.

  12. #12 by achloryn on May 28, 2011 - 8:12 pm

    @Rachkalos – you know they removed the cast time for Ring of Frost, right? It got nixed in the last PTR patch.

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