Leadership = Logic Puzzle?

A man has to get a fox, a chicken, and a sack of corn across a river.
He has a rowboat, and it can only carry him and one other thing.
If the fox and the chicken are left together, the fox will eat the chicken.
If the chicken and the corn is left together, the chicken will eat the corn.
How does the man do it?

You need two Ulduar groups.  The following conditions apply:

Warrior Tank 1 (WT1) doesnt’ want to raid without Disc Priest (DP). 
Paladin Tank (PT) wants to tank with WT1.
Death Knight Tank (DT) wants to be in a group with either WT1, DP, or PT.
Warrior Tank 2 (WT2) doesn’t give a shit and has no idea this clusterfuck even exists.
PT will tank with DT if he has to, but does not want to tank with WT2.

Following me so far?  If not, don’t worry.  That list above makes my fucking head hurt, because it’s essentially an unsolvable puzzle.

The current groups are:
PT + WT1
DK + WT2 + DP

This violates Condition #1, however, and neither Zoja nor myself are very happy.  While Atropus and I work great together, I have to live with Zoja and listen to him bitch about being in a different group. 

My Proposed Solution:
PT + WT2 + one of the twins that also serve as officers so that he is not the “only” officer in the raid. 
WT1 + DT + DP so that Atropus is raiding with his friends and the couple can continue to function as the pair that they are (did Zoja go AFK without warning?  I’ll will let you know!  Is Zoja alt tabbed looking at 4chan?  I will turn around let him know you’re pulling!  Do we for some reason want to talk to each other?  We can do so without the constant interruption of both vent channels!)  Yes, Zoja and Steve tank GREAT together.  But Zoja and I heal/tank GREAT together.  I’ve been healing him since Molten fucking Core-with NO other tank do I have that instinctive understanding.  Which synergy is more important?

But this violates Condition #5, which exists because…I don’t know, Steve is a dick or something.

Other possibilities:

WT1 + WT2 + DP = why the fuck do we have two warriors in the same group, reducing diversity and also increasing gear competition?

DT + WT2 = why the fuck do we have the two least experienced tanks together?!?!?!  I love them both, don’t get me wrong, but Atropus  is a “new main” and he didn’t tank with his old one.  Wreckz is also a “new main” and while he DID tank on his old toon, pally tanking =/= warrior tanking.  Not a good pairing for progression content.

Also, the Zoja/Josh + Steve pairing seems to conjure in everyone’s minds the idea that their group is the “good” group.   It doesn’t seem to matter that just as many officers are in each group, “clearly” the GM will be in the “best” group, along with his best friend.  Never mind that we have some of the best DPS and some of the best healers, we “must” be the “leftovers” group because “they” aren’t in it.


This attitude was emphasized by the fact that group 1 downed the Lootmoble, one shotted Razorscale, and then two shotted XT.  Group 2 downed Lootmobile and proceeded to wipe 6 times on Razorscale until the holy priest DC’d, couldn’t get back in, and we had to call it a night half an hour early.  While I put on my Sunshine Hat and praised everyone for visible improvement on every attempt (true!  We might well have had her if not for the fateful DC), inside I couldn’t help but me a smidge bitter.

Steve seems to think we can compromise by rotating, but rotating is hell on progression.

I…don’t know what to do, to be honest.  My proposed solution is neatly cockblocked by Steve going “But I don’t WANT to tank with Wreckz!”



Off to take a more logical version of this to the officer forums!  I just felt like sharing my pain, apparently…


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  1. #1 by Dangerla on April 23, 2009 - 11:48 am

    This post is exactly why I would not want to be a raid leader, or an officer. I have enough crap like that at work to deal with, WoW is my downtime.

    I do however take note of the trouble and appreciate you posting this, so when my raid/guild leaders get cranky, this helps to put it in perspective.

  2. #2 by kyrilean on April 23, 2009 - 11:53 am

    Row the chicken across. Leave the chicken.
    Row the fox across. Take back the chicken.
    Row the corn across.
    Row the chicken across.


    Shoot the fox, kill the chicken, and take them in whatever order you want! :)

  3. #3 by jong on April 23, 2009 - 1:13 pm

    great analogy. i hope you guys work it out and have fun progressing.

  4. #4 by Ambrosyne on April 23, 2009 - 1:33 pm

    Kyky…you would post the damn answer. XD

  5. #5 by kyrilean on April 23, 2009 - 1:53 pm

    @ Amber – /confused. was that not the point of the post? :P

  6. #6 by Elleiras on April 23, 2009 - 2:36 pm

    I gave up on organized 10’s after our first week in Northrend. Thanks for reminding me why!

  7. #7 by SuicidalPriest on April 23, 2009 - 5:11 pm

    O.o I just finished raiding and fixing bullshit like this. Sorry but I’m gonna pass on this one! >.< Just tell them to go get a life!

  8. #8 by HP on April 23, 2009 - 5:47 pm

    I’m glad kyrilean posted the answer, it would’ve drove me crazy trying to figure it out myself.

    Sorry to hear about your 10 man problems. Organizing raids is hard not because of balancing the right class or spec but because of people. Don’t envy you that job.

  9. #9 by Kisli on April 24, 2009 - 12:37 am

    Amber you should have made a flowchart! <3

  10. #10 by shrielkul on April 26, 2009 - 3:52 pm

    It’s the attitude that some people bring with them to whatever group setting they are participating in that always makes me strongly consider Ky’s option B.

  11. #11 by edward Sato on July 24, 2010 - 9:21 am

    you will pick the chicken across the river then next pick a fox and drop a fox pick a chicken back drop and pick a corn across the river then back again to the chicken to the final transportation. in short the chicken has two times pick to each side of the river first port and to transport the fox back the chicken then pick the corn and the end pick a chicken.

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