Shield to Face II: Rumors Are True

As my priest and even as my hunter, I didn’t see much asshattery.  Stupid, yes, but not asshattery.  Of course things with my warrior, as I predicted, were…different.

Enter my warrior tank and suddenly OH GOD, people are UTTER ASSHOLES.

Ironically, you know who the worst ones are?  The healers.  Oh lord, my fellow healers, you can be fucking jerks!  I mean I’m a right snarky bitch, this is true, but I’ll never leave a group in VH right before a boss spawn.  No one had died, we weren’t going too slow (we were keeping up with portal spawns, and you just can’t do better than that) but the tree abruptly declared that we sucked and left.   As the incoming boss warning spammed my screen.

Wut?  Fuck you too, tree. 

My poor warrior gets in these groups where DPS pulls first, or the healer runs clear to the other side of the instance with mobs (FUCK YOU ROOM OF DOOM IN HOS), and suddenly everything is my fault.  Oh, that’s assuming people don’t just take one look at my gear and leave group at the start.  I spent one UK run flailing because the ret pally was pulling everything first and at the end the healer calls me a bad tank and leaves. 

No, no, fuck you.  I’m not the best warrior tank-of course not!  But you can’t expect perfection when the DPS won’t give me even 1 bloody second to try to use Heroic Throw to grab a caster before AoEing and dragging the mobs to hell and back.  Bwuh.  And invariably, the first person to leave…the person to talk the worst shit…was the healer.

Every single god damned time.  The DPS was usually no more than derp derp stupid, though I’d occasionally get the PULL FASTER commentary from them.

I present the face of a snarky bitch here in my blog, but I would never bail on a group like that, or say some of the shit I had said to me this weekend.  Never.  I was baffled that “my fellow healers” could be such a group of cumguzzling cockmongers.


Lyestra the warrior is done with full random pugs.


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  1. #1 by Linedan on December 28, 2009 - 10:40 am

    The Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory is in full effect with PUGs…and it seems to be getting worse, since I think the intelligent people have already gone in and gotten their gear and titles and pug dogs and whatnot.

    Don’t feel bad. I have run more instances on Linedan as DPS than I have as tank. I don’t want to deal with the stupid, the pressure, the people yelling at me to pull faster…and quite honestly, I’m scared pantsless of getting heroic Halls of Reflection. That is a freaking nightmare for a warrior tank. I’ve done heroic FoS and just the last boss in Pit of Saron as tank, but have yet to be able to get a group through HoR while prot. I ran it this morning on Lin as DPS with a DK tank who made the Statler and Waldorf encounter look trivial. WTB AOE agro plox.

  2. #2 by Kadomi on December 28, 2009 - 10:45 am

    I think no one gets as much shit in PUGs as warriors, I really do. I would call myself an accomplished warrior tank, but LFG just stresses me out. I do my Frost emblem random, and then I do guild runs or run PUGs with my alts. But I won’t suffer through the shitty groups you can end up with in LFG.

    I seriously feel for every warrior tank who’s now hitting 80, it’s a rough world out there.

  3. #3 by theerivs on December 28, 2009 - 11:00 am

    cumguzzling cockmongers? Leave my Mom out of this!

  4. #4 by korenmolen on December 28, 2009 - 11:14 am

    I’m running most random pugs as DPS. Not heals. And I’m definitely not tanking them. Some times you do get good ones. But it’s the 20% of bad ones that really ruin it – and the percentage is that high – people who need on everything they can, then bug out of the instance, healers who say “I’m not going to like healing this” and depart as soon as setting foot in the door, DPS who bug out as the “incoming boss” warning flashes on DBM…

    The lol-dps comments I can manage – my hunter has *just* replaced his last green item with an ilvl 200 blue – he can’t do much. But leaving mid-run? posting meters all the time *in a heroic*, pulling before the tank, tank chainpulling without consideration for mana users, tank not pulling the casters, but enjoying himself with the melee mobs…. it gets too tiring to put up with.

    I’m not sure whether the worst ones are the raiders on their alts, surprised when the mobs do not fall over as quickly as they should, when they have accidentally pulled the whole room, or the ones who seem to have no experience at all, or the ones where all they want is to sign up, faceroll, 7 badges please, wham bam thankyou ma’am. I only have enough sympathy for the inexperienced ones – they can at least learn, and change.

    I should sign this one off as Ranty MacRantypants…..

  5. #5 by Ambrosine on December 28, 2009 - 11:18 am

    @Linedan – But I don’t have DPS gear on Ly. /sobs

    I have gotten through HoR with Cranky Tank a couple of times, but it takes the right DPS. Not just in numbers-it needs to be high enough for the Chase Scene-but also in intelligence. They need to WAIT. Last time we failed becuase the warlock would invaribly get aggro early, I’d heal him, and then the shit would eat my face and we’d wipe. Now one obvious solution would have been to NOT HEAL HIM, but then the waves wouldn’t have gone down fast enough. Bwuh.

    We’ve even done HoR out in the open rather than using the LoS strat, with a priest to shackle.

    @Kadomi – It’s rough on anyone just hitting 80, with the possible exception of healers. Ly is relegated to heroics with my friends. Even if some of those friends are still wearing greens. >:|

  6. #6 by Aurik on December 28, 2009 - 11:23 am

    I’ve had a very mixed response on my warrior – I’ve had people leave as soon as they see my HP (26k self-buffed), I’ve had others be a bit wary ‘are you sure you can handle this?’ and I’ve had others who were so damn kind to me and encouraged me through Forge of Souls when the random bloody instance thing put me there as my first 80 instance and I cried like a little kid.

    Generally, I’ve also found healers to be the whiny ones but also, on the other hand, they can be the most supportive. I can’t help but feel the ones who’re whiny must be speccing haelz just to get groups or something as, personally, I enjoy the challenge of healing low-geared tanks from time to time.

    Generally, I’ve started to warn people about my gear level when I zone in and that, if they just hold back a little on the aggro, we’ll all be fine and yes, I can do this tyvm. I’ve taken to *not* using random normal, though, for my warrior as it almost always plunges me into PoS or FoS >_<

    I really get hacked off at people with bad attitudes towards tanks – why do they all think there's such a shortage for their groups? Any fresh respecced / levelled tank is gonna take one look at that and respec back to dps, queues be damned. Maybe that's actually why the healers are more pissy – they don't have 20min queues like the dps do… ._.


  7. #7 by kyrilean on December 28, 2009 - 11:26 am

    Ahhh it has begun! The new LFG tool is losing it’s charm and we’ll all start bitching and moaning soon. :)

    Perhaps I should regale you in my tale of my leaving a HToC group on my priest? Oh wait…I left as they pulled the bosses because of a rogue and not the tank. :P

    Childish? Perhaps. But I still got a certain amount of joy letting their repair bill increase. Lesson learned? I doubt it, but perhaps the rogue will think twice before insulting a healer who’s capabilities he hasn’t even seen yet. :P

  8. #8 by Dechion on December 28, 2009 - 11:31 am

    Worrying about folk’s reaction to an undergeared and inexperienced tank is the main reason I am grinding up my gear as Dps first.

    Even then I will start off tanking normal stuff before I move on to heroics, much less raiding.

    I have seen a few asshats while on my priest, mostly tanks oddly enough, but a fair share of Dps as well.

    I know I try not to be ovely critical when I roll as a healer.

  9. #9 by raquoon on December 28, 2009 - 11:55 am

    @Linedan – I disagree with you regarding HoR. That place is all about CC, kill order, and most important enough dps. Most of the times it fails is because the dps is not there. Every tank has problems with it.

    You need to have patients with warrior tanks Amber. We are very gear dependent. Unfortunately we really don’t shine until we get top gear. Until then we are mediocre at best, it comes with the territory.

    As per pugs been assholes, remember you a tank and it takes you 3sec to find a group. It takes them an average of 15m or more. If a dps pulls agro he deserves to die, if a healer pulls agro then its your fault :)

  10. #10 by xuna of ragnaros on December 28, 2009 - 12:00 pm

    well… everyone is bound to find d-bags and asshats everywhere, even those who are d-bags themselves, they always find someone even more douchebaggery.

    But this should not stop you from enjoying this game. Remember that is a game that caught you in such a passionate way that you still play it after all this years.

    I don’t get the whole competitive nature of wow. I believe we can be somewhat happier with a cooperative mode of play. I have a Dream. a dream of no recount spammers, no gearscore checkers, no little unique snowflakes in need of feeling special, just people enjoying what they do and the interactions they get from people.

    AS many have already found out, the other toons on your “team” are controlled by other PEOPLE. it doesn`t matter faction or race, they are PEOPLE. Do you bail out of you work because your coworker is not doing a magnificent work and not doing it fast enough? Do you bail off a (insert sport of preference) game because one of your players is having a bad day? Remember, you are dealing with people.

    Although you may never know that person and may never talk to them again, it is no excuse to do that. Your “crappy” tank just could be a newcomer to the game, fighting his/her way to the top, learning the ropes of that job.


    -PS: wall of text syndrome kicking in.

  11. #11 by Ambrosine on December 28, 2009 - 12:23 pm

    I have no idea how to DPS warrior and don’t have the gear for it, either. D:

    I did drop back to running some more normals, but there’s only another piece or two of gear that drops for me there and then it’s…back to heroics. You know, for gear. Which I get bitched at for not having. /facepalm

  12. #12 by Ndiayne on December 28, 2009 - 12:40 pm

    loldpsmeterwhores is all I have to say about the new LFG. Is the boss dead? Did we wipe? Was it even close to a wipe? NO? Okay, SHUT THE HELL UP, DPS/HEALING/TANKING IS JUST FINE.

    I have been healing regulars when I want to escape the rampant asshattery found in lolhurroics. We had a DK last night apologizing for his DPS because he just hit 80! Apparently he’s been treated pretty poorly b/c of it in other randoms.

    Seriously, it’s a regular. The only thing I expect is for the tank to be in a reasonable amount of +def gear, the dps to basically be geared right, and the healer to know where the healbuttons are. Normally my “regular” dungeons are so much nicer than the heroics. People are (usually) friendly, nobody expects you to be omgbest[class]ever, and bosses actually get explained. (So does finicky trash/mechanics.)

  13. #13 by Rhidach on December 28, 2009 - 1:11 pm

    I think you’d feel better if you jumped on your priest and slapped around a pug tank like it was your play thing.

  14. #14 by Forreststump on December 28, 2009 - 2:26 pm

    It finally came to the point where I bought my way to semi-viability on the DK when I decided that I didn’t want to wait 15 mins for a DPS slot. I’m going to run heroics as a tank, but buy DPS gear with the badges.

    Now on the healer side – the only time I get aggravated is when the tank doesn’t bother to see if I’m in his vicinity when he starts pulling. In your case (undergeared), I take it more as a challenge.

    I think we’re dialed in to the same wavelength today – I made a reference to a “cum fountain” in my post today (compared to your “cumguzzling cockmonger” remark). Much LOLs.

  15. #15 by raquoon on December 28, 2009 - 2:54 pm

    One more comment regarding your gear (I hope I got the correct toon in armory). I noticed you did not have a shoulder enchant, you should either get greater inscription of the Gladiator or the Greater inscription of the Pinnacle from Hordir. Also you gem your gloves and belt with Defender’s Twilight Opal (+8 parry & +12 stamina). Change them to Precise Scarlet Ruby (+16 expertise), it will help a great deal with agro. Its not worth it to gem for either parry or dodge as a tank. The most important stat after defense for warrior tank is the expertise softcap of 26.
    Put Accuracy on your weapon, it will also help with agro.
    Most important if you got access to guildies bribe/force/blackmail them to help you run ToC 5 man. Both Heroic and normal. Lots of tanking upgrades for you there.

  16. #16 by SlikRX/Balthazario on December 28, 2009 - 3:41 pm

    I’ve definitely seen a downward trend in the peeps running the LFG now.

    Poor gear, I don’t mind
    Poor experience, I don’t mind
    Bad attitude – kill ’em now
    Bad intelligence (ie , not learning from the last wipe) – kill em now.

    I actually had to bail on 2 different occasions this weekend, which I DESPISE doing, but a 31 gold repair bill, and only one boss down, is just painful. (not to mention it gets tougher, the worse the more damage the gear gets)

    *sad Furlbog*

  17. #17 by Derkins on December 28, 2009 - 3:49 pm

    Life is hard as PUG tank these days. DPS refuses to CC, wait for threat, or disrupt casters; healers want to sleepwalk their way through. The kind of behavior that would have gotten people instantly kicked in BC instances has become the norm.

    I was healing an OK run recently where the tank pulled a second trash group and we wiped. He apologized, and rightfully so… but I really wanted to point out that if either the mage or the rogue had been bothering to counterspell the Spell Flingers, or anyone had thrown even a single CC, I could have healed us through easily.

    My advice for gearing a new tank is to find a geared pocket healer. This is how we geared up my friend’s pally, and we had surprisingly few troubles. For one thing, I was able to smooth over potential trouble before anyone could complain. For another, thanks to our guild tags, I think our puggers were less likely to try to boot the tank when she’s likely to take her T9 healer with her…

  18. #18 by Velidra on December 28, 2009 - 4:16 pm

    I’m somewhat surprised… having just got my pally to 80 and now tanking, sometimes with blues/greens, I haven’t found quite this level of open rage at my gear.

    But yes, DPS are stupid. Like when I taunt one mob in a pack, and then each dps picks the other 3 mobs to open up on so I can’t even get agro. Or when you pull one group and the mage pulls another group…

    Sometimes I’ve done stupid things, like run ahead of the healer and then realized I’ve pulled 2 groups with no heals… But usually I can use LoH and we get through it, I apologies and try not to do it again.

    But generally I haven’t had that much open abuse, I’m at 71/100 for my pug, and I’ve only had 2 healers quit on me.

  19. #19 by Karen on December 28, 2009 - 4:57 pm

    I’ve been pretty lucky with the pugs so far; I’ve only had one run-in with one Cranky Tank, but everyone else has been pretty polite and respectful, even when we get grouped with undergeared players.

  20. #20 by Ambrosine on December 28, 2009 - 4:58 pm

    @raquoon – A lot of my somewhat oddball choices are disctated by genral lack of fundage on the warrior. A guildless toon and my only 80 on that server, her resources are slim. I sense that today shall be an herb farming day.

  21. #21 by SlikRX/Balthazario on December 28, 2009 - 6:04 pm

    Oh, one thing I could add for tanks: If you have a pally, and you see a mob (usually a caster) standing off to the side with a little swirly thing over their head, please leave them alone.

    They are repenting for their sins and will leave us alone for 60 seconds, or until some blockhead (intentionally) hits them.

    I understand if I cc’ed too close, and an AoE hits them. My bad.

    Please don’t break what little CC abilities I have.

  22. #22 by Nzete on December 28, 2009 - 11:41 pm

    When the options are tank, heal, or wait for the dps spot to spawn in lfg… well, my main (priest) heals, alt one (bear/tree), alt two (prot/holy pally), alt three (mage), and alt four (newly decked in blacksmithing +defense to be dk tank)… oh gosh, I hope she isn’t as terrible as all the dk tanks that I have healed. And all of my characters are developing a nice ignore list… and I consider anyone from the Kel’Thuzad server suspect.

  23. #23 by Cassandri on December 29, 2009 - 3:18 am

    See it’s as simple as this : the person who took the least time queuing will be the fastest to leave.

    So for me, since I’m always pulled in to heal, it’s the TANK who (if a DPS is dumb enough to complain) leaves first. And yes, they always leave at the worse time to ensure a wipe.

    I’m sure if I was playing as a tank I’d come across healers, those who spend 1 or 2 minutes in queue as opposed to insta-queuing as a tank, who were quick to leave group.

    Of course it’s usually the DPS who behave the worst and talk the most shit. But they’re usually not stupid enough to drop the group over it in order to wait 15-30 minutes for another run. I think that’s why they talk so much shit – tanks and healers can just up and leave when something isn’t “good enough” for them.

    But yeah, AOEing off the bat is a pretty annoying habits. Good healers can usually tell when the DPS are to blame. If that’s any consolation :(

  24. #24 by rustbeard on December 29, 2009 - 10:34 am

    I hear you. It seems on my battlegroup that the healers have a**hattery down to a science. If you’re not so far overgeared you don’t need a healer, they bail. If, God forbid, we draw CoT or OK, they bail (obviously anything over 15 mins is overtaxing on their ADD). I suspect, because they know that finding a group will take them perhaps 30 seconds, they feel free to act as if the world revolves around them.

    I guess it all boils down to courtsey – I know that there are some real huntards out there. But tanks, when one asks if you want him to help you start with misdirect to pull heavy aggro early, don’t be afraid to say, I’d rather you save it for an emergency “get the mob off the healer” moment. I (or any good hunter) won’t mind. (Look for more of this in a post on my blog in the near future.) 2 minutes at the start of a PuG will save 20 minutes of drama looking for a new healer/tank. And to the tanks/healers – don’t be so whiney – wait for a wipe at least before you bail. Perhaps, just perhaps, we’re better players than our gear indicates.

  25. #25 by kavika on December 29, 2009 - 1:11 pm

    Kill dps meters and this all stops. In fact, I can’t really understand why blizz even put the ability to track everyone’s damage in the game in the first place. That should be developer-side information only. I mean cmon, if you’ve played this game long enough you can tell when there’s shitty dps or even shitty healing without meters. Placing meters inside the game just gives people some stupid number to strive for and they forget about mechanics…(i.e. pulling before the tank does)

  26. #26 by Niceas on December 29, 2009 - 1:56 pm

    I’ve been healing my way through instances on my main. Haven’t failed to complete an instance yet, and that includes multiple HOR runs (knocks on wood).

    That said, I’ve had some real, quality fail-pugs. One run I was in as DPS made it past the second boss in Nexus when the Tank and two DPS (all from the same server, I might add) left the group on our way through the dragon-kin before the third boss. The healer and I stayed, and we got a new tank and DPS… Funnily enough, the run went a lot smoother from there.

    I don’t run gear score, I don’t care about any of that crap. Maybe I’m just lucky and I’ve only found a couple of tanks who fail (read: pull too quickly or ambitiously and blame it on the group) but so far it really hasn’t been an issue.

  27. #27 by Askevar on December 29, 2009 - 3:02 pm

    And experiences like this are why I am not sure my prot warrior will be tanking in instances when he hits 80.

  28. #28 by MyName on December 29, 2009 - 3:52 pm

    >In fact, I can’t really understand why blizz even put the ability to track everyone’s damage in the game in the first place.

    To be fair, they didn’t really put that ability in, they just gave a combat log that people wrote addons for. And the meters can be helpful in raids, but are pretty damn useless for 5 mans.

    And I’m happy to say that I’ve encountered maybe 1-2 asshats in the healer part of doing randoms on my tank.

    But the “blame the tank” trend is the worst part of this I think. Warriors may have it bad, but DKs have it worse (mostly because there are soo many newbs who play the class). And I agree with the previous poster that HoR is like 30% tanking, 20% healing and 50% on the DPS. But they don’t want to own up to the fact that they have to either have: 1) super awesome DPS, or 2) the ability to actually follow a kill order in order to get pass the first room in there.

    If you’ve been tanking all 4-5 mobs for 30s and then suddenly the healer starts to go OOM or you lose control of a mob because none of them are dead, it’s still *magically* the tank’s fault, or the healer’s fault. It’s never the fact that they’re too dumb to follow the right rotation or a kill order or even CC one mob.

  29. #29 by Anon on March 29, 2010 - 6:17 pm

    I have a warrior tank and a paladin tank that i run pug heroics with. I know your pain all too well with the frustration of pugging with bad players that think they are the best and know it all and constantly make pugging a nightmare. I’ll be bookmarking this page and checking in now and then. It feels good to know that there are other players out there that understand the game and can play well. It feels even better to know that I am not alone in my struggle against the moronic waves of puggers that i am thrown in line with.

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