1. #1 by tytalus on January 26, 2010 - 5:26 pm

    Additional tips I can think of from our experiences:

    Tanks could be side-by-side, allowing the melee to stay put.

    Lots of other snaring techniques work on the blood beasts, to minimize blood power gained by Saurfang — sometimes we use hunter traps, sometimes tank stuns like you describe, sometimes even a Piercing Howl from a fury war.

    Raiders marked for death can also be directed to stand with the melee, since a lot of group heal spam and tank heal spam and Beacon spam can land on them. Or, you can just tell your healers to let them die, minimizing what Saurfang gains from them.

    It’s harsh, but amusing (when it’s not me). :)

  2. #2 by renault on January 26, 2010 - 6:19 pm

    I dont really pay attention to adds in 25, but I think we have range kite. I know our ele shammys and boomkin like tossing them around. BTW, tossing them off the platform is fun, but has the habit of glitching Saurfang and he despawns and resets.

    In ten man I get to ret! We have one beast get taken out by ranged and the other gets blown away by melee. I have 3 pallys in my 10 man so we trade stun hammers to keep them from hitting us. They go down so fast though, that they don’t get many hits in anyway.

  3. #3 by Kaelik on January 26, 2010 - 6:22 pm

    One thing my guild has found very useful (for 25 mans) is to let marks die if they are DPS, and keep them up if they are healers. The amount Saurfang heals for when they die is nothing compared to the hassle of keeping them up, particularly since the by the end of the fight you’ll probably be keeping up at least one healer who has a mark, and that’s easier if the marked DPS are dead. Kinda harsh, but really effective.

  4. #4 by renault on January 26, 2010 - 7:11 pm

    we heal everyone, but we also use 3 pally healers in 25s, so its pretty darn convenient. We just beacon the marked guy. I don’t think we,ve ever had more than 4 marks, so it works well. Did I mention my guild runs a ton of pallys….with 5-6 of us per raid it makes getting tier tokens interesting :P

  5. #5 by Anderasill on January 26, 2010 - 8:46 pm

    Pro hax seen done on this fight this weekend.

    Fight saurafang over on the right side of the platform up against the edge. When beast spawn, have shaman/boomkin go SHABAM – typhoon and shock will send the beasties flying right off the edge! It takes a little manuvering to figure out the perfect position so you’re not just shabaming them into the pillars, and even then, you may miss one. But WOW – less bad marks = happy holy pally.

  6. #6 by Cassandri on January 26, 2010 - 11:29 pm

    “First off, your third healer (or whoever your bitch healers are in 25s) need to go DPS”

    Well said! I laughed.

    Yeah, just make sure that bitch healer isn’t your Discipline healer, cause you’ll want them to bubble bubble bubble.

    Absorbing pretty much any Saurfang damage using bubble slowed the amount of Blood Power (orange energy) that Saurfang gains:

    http://www.hotsdots.com/2009/12/saurfang-blood-and-bubbles/

  7. #7 by Prot on January 27, 2010 - 12:08 am

    One strat I saw this past week had 2 of the non-tank paladins get soul stoned. Then when the first mark came up one of htem would DI that mark, then SS up. The second mark would be done the same way. The fight should be over before the first DI wears off. You DI so that the person with the mark doesn’t take damage (slowing the blood power) and also doesn’t die (no 5% health gain).

    My favorite non-guildie gave this advice once and it seemed to be great:
    “The boss of this fight is not Saurfang Jr., but the Blood Beasts. The Blood Beasts are the boss and Saurfang is just the mechanic used to bring them to you and to punish you for not downing them.”

  8. #8 by Manta on January 27, 2010 - 7:10 am

    5, 5 freaking blood beasts spawn in 25 mans. Furthermore as a mage who always ends up kite killing an add (10 or 25) let me make this perfectly clear to all you tanks and melee dps out there, no aoe allowed during spawns. No exceptions. Spent the latest run through there having pull every trick in the book to get the blood beast focused on me instead of the pally tank who couldn’t live without his consecrate until after I got the beast clear.

  9. #9 by Kotakh on January 27, 2010 - 9:19 am

    I ran a PuG with my rogue the other day. On Saurfang, they asked me to put Trick on the warlock just before the beast spawn then Eviscerate the beast. The beast will make a straight line to the warlock and then i stun it with 4-5 combo point and keep attacking it with the warlock. The beast is usually dead before the stun is over.

  10. #10 by wantedpriest on January 27, 2010 - 9:48 am

    In 25 man, the field gets a little crowded, so we put our two tank healers (Disc Priest & Healadin) on the platform, right beside the two braziers. The braizers don’t block line of sight to the raid, and they are 10 yards from where the tank/melee group is, so not BP hugs either. More space for the ranged group to play with, and no movement required for your tank healers helps.

    Vess

  11. #11 by Ambrosine on January 27, 2010 - 10:04 am

    @Cass – Actually, depending on our raid make up, I often have to go shadow because I have the least fail DPS. So no bubbles. :(

  12. #12 by saeric on January 27, 2010 - 1:07 pm

    In 25s, 5 beasts spawn. We usually have 4 pairs of ranged dps positioned around the platform, taking out the four “front” beasts. The melee stuns the fifth one (from the back) and kills it before it leaves the stun.

    We put any disc priests we have in the melee group, they can shield themselves and fade to lose aggro when the blood beasts spawn, and this gives more room for the ranged dps to spread out at range. A pally healer with Righteous Fury on standing near the portal can get initial aggro on the beasts, making them run toward the back before the dps peels them off.

    We always let the first mark die, and sometimes the second. The reason is, that each mark creates more blood points and therefore more and quicker marks, exponentially. By letting the first one or two die, we often end up getting 3 or fewer marks the entire fight.

    In ten man, Disc priest shields can make the fight almost trivial. My group actually downed him with no blood marks last week, and hope to repeat that this week.

  13. #13 by Joe Ego on January 27, 2010 - 1:38 pm

    Deathbringer doesn’t cleave, so there’s no problem with tank stacking.

    Healers can stand in melee to make room for ranged unless they have trouble with healing aggro on the beast spawns or the ranged can’t pull their beasts quickly enough.

    All slow, stun, and snare effects help on the beasts.

    Shaman and Boomkin knockback effects can push beasts off the platform, but you will encounter problems with:
    a) beasts knocked into pillars rather than off the edge
    b) beasts will sometimes do a ‘summon’ effect and pull a player over the edge with them. http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=38508 This will bug the player out of the encounter and they will not be eligible for loot. This effect can also be observed sometimes by kiting beasts to the gunship.
    c) the boss will sometimes bug out and despawn. This is rare, but I have seen it occur repeatedly on the same night once it had happened the first time.

    Bubbles on boiling blood DoT’s are pro.

    All damage is physical, so Amplify Magic is your friend.

    All damage is physical, so Hand of Protection is a caster’s friend. HoP and shields also stop/reduce Mark damage. These and other shields reduce the rate of blood power gain.

    Blood Beasts are highly resistant to AoE and Disease damage. If you intend to kill a beast then don’t Consecrate.

    For melee heavy raids, or for raids with trouble managing beasts, assign melee to kill one beast. If the tanks and melee can avoid pulling more than 1 beast then it should not be much trouble to stun and kill one quickly.

    Blood Beasts always spawn in the same pattern around the boss. If the tanks stack then the boss doesn’t move and the beasts always spawn in the same positions. Consistent beast spawns let your dps pick up beasts quickly and easily.

    Stupid taunting tricks can help on beasts. Ranged can ping-pong a beast over a frost trap. Tanks or melee can taunt a beast at max range (over a frost trap). Pro DK’s can rescue the melee from additional beast by running out 10 yards and death gripping.

    Be careful that your Shaman and Boomkin knockback does not drop beasts into melee where people have started using Consecrate again.

    If you intend to let a Mark die, make sure they take a moment to run away from the raid. Various smart and splash heals can keep a Mark alive for a lot longer than you think, leading to more blood power than you’ve intended.

    Deathbringer hits like a little kid until 30%, when he starts hitting like a big baby. If you’ve got enough mana (and haste), it’s possible to spam Holy Light during Frenzy and keep up the tank and two or three Marks.

    Tanks swap too often to make Beacon very efficient, though if you’ve got enough mana it doesn’t hurt to leave it on one at the start. Beacon on a Mark is also found in Webster’s under “l33t hax”.

  14. #14 by Alixander on January 27, 2010 - 1:56 pm

    Manta wrote:
    “Spent the latest run through there having pull every trick in the book to get the blood beast focused on me instead of the pally tank who couldn’t live without his consecrate until after I got the beast clear.”

    As a Paladin I can state that it’s not Consecrate that got them on him unless he’s running around with about a bajillion and a half spell power (not gonna happen). The Blood Beasts have a 90% damage reduction on AOEs, which includes Consecrate.

    What gets a Paladin tank threat is Hammer of the Rightous. HotR is a single-target jumping spell, somewhat akin to the more widely known Chain Lightning spell. You cast HotR on your main target, doing 4 times your melee DPS damage in holy damage. It then jumps to two other nearby targets. Since it attacks a succession of single targets (instead of all targets in a set area) it bypasses the 90% damage reduction effect, making it pretty much glue the Blood Beasts to the tank.

    Obviously one shouldn’t use HotR during the fight, but Consecrate is a non-issue. Just sayin’ so we can get the facts straight. :)

  15. #15 by Manta on January 27, 2010 - 4:39 pm

    No no, I’m quite positive it was consecrate, I checked. While it is not much aggro against their 95% aoe protection (according to wowhead), it is enough to cause them to gain a couple of extra blood power and make it just a little harder to pull them off since there is usually a ret aura up for this fight.

    So, yes, consecrate can be an issue because it causes the direct gain of blood power that could be prevented.

  16. #16 by Backer on January 28, 2010 - 3:56 pm

    A good holy pally can solo heal this on 10 man.
    /epeen

  17. #17 by Joe Ego on January 28, 2010 - 4:35 pm

    A good holly pally *with a good raid team* can solo heal lots of stuff. I did Anub 10. With skilled players I could probably solo heal Rotface.

    So much depends on the other players. Just about anybody can solo heal Deathbringer up to the first mark. If the rest of the raid can’t hack it then even 3 healers aren’t going to get it done.

  18. #18 by Julanna on January 29, 2010 - 10:22 am

    On 25s, Our best strat on the Adds is a holy pally puts on righteous fury (the threat one) as they heal. all adds head to them when they spawn, warlock Shadowfury’s them right in front of a frost trap or two if we are lucky to have 2 hunters. Then all ranged burn down one on the opposite side of the room and its dead before it reaches them. If we are letting a marked person die (if the first one or two is a clothy we usually sacrifice them lol) and they run back onto the boat to get out of the way of aoe heals.

    For the person who uses DI, doesn’t the paladins death and res heal the boss for 5% anyways?

  19. #19 by Joe Ego on January 29, 2010 - 2:47 pm

    The DI trick requires a few pieces:
    *Paladin available to cast DI – not your tank, hopefully not your off tank, hopefully not a healer.
    *Warlock soulstone on the designated paladin(s), or druids able to resurrect.
    *Intelligent players who will not do dumb things:
    a) remove their DI
    b) resurrect in AoE damage or with a Mark

    Only people with a Mark will heal the boss when they die. The paladin can be resurrected with no penalty except lost dps/healing, though you could arrange to keep a paladin alive with a Mark just to use his DI on another Mark.

    DI prevents all damage and, just like any other absorption effect or physical damage shield, not being damaged means no blood power for the boss.

    My question: does anyone know if a fail angel heals the boss for a second time? Please link me some evidence.

  20. #20 by Wiggles on February 2, 2010 - 5:28 am

    @Manta

    As a Paladin I can assure you it isn’t consecrate. I use consecrate, the pally tank uses consecrate. Our ranged has no problem with the adds. The only time it was ever an issue was when we were first learning the fight and the pally tank had HotR in his rotation. Once he removed that, it was a non-issue. Never had the problem again.

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