Things I Shouldn’t Have to Say

I’m amused by the attention my post on Frostheim is still getting.  I thought I’d come back and revisit the topic, albeit without focusing on Frostheim in particular because really this isn’t about Frostheim.

It’s about people, their behavior, and the strange case of “people aren’t real if you only meet them on the internet”. 

Society has rules.  Each society has its own rules, of course–American rules about personal space, for example, aren’t the same as you’d find in Japan–but some things are relative constants.

Like…don’t be a dick.  Wheaton’s Law, if you will.

What constitutes being a dick can vary, but in the general sense, if you wouldn’t like it if someone else did something to you, you probably shouldn’t go around and do it to other people.  

There is no point in being a dick.  It’s counter productive.  Being a total ass to someone else doesn’t teach them anything.  If they are dicks in and of themselves they won’t give a flying fuck what you say or do and will probably just get defensive (and feel justified), and if they’re a nice person you’ll just upset them and teach them that…well, you’re a dick.

Anger has its place, but that place is not in the face of other people.  There are ways to deal with other people being dicks that does not involve you being a dick that are far more effective. 

If I place a greater emphasis–not importance, emphasis–on public figures being extra careful to not be a dick, it’s because humanity has a terrible case of monkey see monkey doism.  We are all equally responsible for not spewing rawr!fail all over the place.

I’ll pull one particular comment from my blog:

Where in the world do all of you get off telling a person that he’s beholden to not be what YOU THINK is an asshat?

Whatever “community” you guys think you have is minimal and useless at best. FH or anyone for that matter doesn’t have to answer to you or any ridiculous standard you think they should live at.

The fact that you’re so quick to hang someone out to dry publicly just because you don’t think they’re doing what YOU think they should be doing shows the problems with YOUR character not his.

ffs

I, am a person, am speaking up on behalf of everyone else’s right as a person to be treated with respect.   My standard is not ridiculous.  It’s common courtesy.   If you think common courtesy is an insanely high standard to hold someone to then I worry for you, sir. 

People generally don’t like assholes.  No one should be surprised if they act like one and then people get upset with them.  Remaining mute about issues that bother us is how they become bigger issues, and some of us have learned this. 

I am someone who doesn’t like to watch people be a total ass and stand silent.  If that is a character flaw then it is one I never wish to relinquish.

I may spew anger and rage on this blog, but it is largely a work of satire (and catharsis).  In actuality my crime is usually that of being too nice.  I, too, have been a dick–but always a repentant one.  Anger gets the best of us all at some time or other but this is not a good thing or a trait to be lauded. 

You can be a dick if you really feel you must, but don’t expect the rest of us to like it–or be quiet about it.

  1. #1 by Lidanya on November 15, 2010 - 12:24 pm

    Holding people to a standard of don’t be a dick is too much to ask of someone’s fragile special snowflake? Oh, lovely.

    Other than that, +1 to everything you said. Well put.

  2. #2 by Rivs on November 15, 2010 - 12:49 pm

    You repentent? When? LOL!

  3. #3 by Grimmtooth on November 15, 2010 - 1:26 pm

    I only commented on Twitter last time, but I won’t repeat that mistake. It was well said then, and it is well said now.

    Maybe nobody asked to be a role model. But by virtue of blogging, one is, like it or not. Whether a good one, or a bad one, that’s the question.

    I will say no more.

    /hattip

  4. #4 by Tam on November 15, 2010 - 2:29 pm

    Let’s dance :)

    For the record, I do see where you’re coming from and I will say that, in general, I think Frost is a bit of a dick. However, in this specific instance I personally don’t think he was a dick. I think he was fully justified in what he did, and had I been in a similar situation I might have tried something similar. The point is that “being a dick” means something different to you than it does to me – thus “don’t be a dick” can’t be a useful guideline for in-game behaviour.

    It’s entirely legitimate for you to judge what Frost did here, or on any other occasion, dickish but it is at best disingenuous and at worst arrogant to draw no distinction between saying “don’t be a dick” and “behave the way I think you should behave.”

    The thing about “being a dick” is that very few of us would categorise our rational choices as being dickish. Nobody behaves in a manner they personally consider to be unreasonable. The rogue who says “Why no healz” believes it is appropriate to ask for heals – he is not consciously trying to be a dick to the healer for the sake of being a dick. In short, trying to live by the maxim of “not being a dick” would not modify our behaviour at all.

    Equally, you can’t use “how would you feel if someone did that to you” as a guideline for behaviour. Like “don’t be a dick” it simply doesn’t work. Ultimately I wouldn’t like it if someone put me in prison but if I’d committed a crime I would fully expect to end up there. In short, I wouldn’t like the group to pull the end boss, but if I’d treated him like shit then I’d deserve everything I got. Furthermore, there are are a whole range of human behaviours that I don’t like people doing in my vicinity – I don’t like people taking their children to restaurants, for example – but it is not reasonable of me to expect these things not to happen on the grounds that those people should recognise they, too, would probably not like it much if they were in my position.

    I might also add that I don’t like “monkey-do-ism” as a justification for telling people what they should and should not do if they are in possession of an audience. I think it disempowers the readership – I would imagine that most people read Frost for huntering tips, not hints on being a decent human being, and are more than capable of recognising the difference.

  5. #5 by Velidra on November 15, 2010 - 3:15 pm

    Theres being a ass, then theres being a ass. Its the difference between teaching a man to fish Vs telling him to GTFO when he asks for food.

    If you put yourself out there, write on popular sites, then your a role model. You can’t have the good side (the /flex from having hundreds/thousands of people reading what you write) without the bad side (the responsibility of being a role model). If you don’t like that then get your weak shit of my internets.

    FH is a assuming hypocritical ass, and not just for pulling the last boss of some instance, but for all the mistakes he made in that run, and probably makes daily. Hes the type of ass who would tell you to GTFO if you asked for food.

    (Hes also the type that likes to randomly delete comments than make him look bad for repeating what he said, SO PRO)

  6. #6 by Issy on November 15, 2010 - 3:46 pm

    @Velidra “Putting yourself out there”, writing on popular – or even unpopular sites – does not make you a role model. It makes you somoene who writes. Being a teacher – that makes you a role model. Writing a blog is like writing a diary online – if people read it, they read it, that’s their choice, and they can take away from it what they will. If I think Frostheim is a dick, then I have the options of calling him out on it, or not calling him out on it, continuing to raad his blog, or not. But I have no right to accuse him of not being a role model, or holding him to any standards whatsoever, Chas was spot on with his post at Righteous Orbs.

  7. #7 by Suicidal Zebra on November 15, 2010 - 4:47 pm

    I have to agree with Amber (and would perhaps go further), being a dick is bad enough. Revelling in your dickish behaviour deserves a certain amount of push-back. Frostheim has chosen to advise readers on talents, gearing and how to be a better Hunter, and hence for better or worse he has taken on the position of role-model for Hunters. You don’t get to assume a position of knowledgeable authority one minute and then deny you have any authority when in the course of your supposed knowledge-backed actions you deliberately screw over another group.

    Ironically, the standards many of us are holding him to aren’t special or unique. I for one would react with the same distain if it were some no-name pugger on a server I’d never heard of. The difference is that when we move from merely online diarist to purveyor of opinion and advice we have a responsibility to give good advice and set a good example for those we profess to advise, to the best of our ability. In this instance, he didn’t. If you can’t accept that it’s probably a good time to get out of Class-blogging and give up your paid position.

    I also have to say that we only have Frostheims word for the actions of the rest of the pug. As a self-confessed asshole, can he be trusted to relay the unvarnished truth if it would paint him in a negative light that even legions of ‘heh, indeed’-ing couldn’t rid him of?

  8. #8 by Sar on November 15, 2010 - 5:11 pm

    Intent has something to do with his culpability. It’s not like he said to himself, F U guys… I’m going to wipe the group, he did pull an angry tank and pull 2 groups and drop in the middle like I so often see in randoms. His plan was to solo the last boss by himself, which if it had succeeded, the rest of the group probably would have been happy about. Seriously, saves them the effort of killing the last boss entirely. However, it unfortunately didn’t work as planned which sucks for him, and for them, but wasn’t intentional. Being a dick on purpose is one thing, being a dick on accident is another. Grant the guy a little credit for not intending to be a dick.

  9. #9 by Velidra on November 15, 2010 - 5:13 pm

    @Issy The equivalent would be writing a book telling people how to do X. When people point out the flaws you then say that “I wasn’t intending to be a role model! THIS BOOK WAS MY DAIRY”. Yeah right.

    You right, a blog can be a dairy, but when you start writing guides for people to read, when you start telling people how to play, you go from a dairy to a role model. You write, people follow your instructions.

  10. #10 by Velidra on November 15, 2010 - 5:15 pm

    @Sar remind me to dig up my (deleted) comment from FH’s blog in which I point out his other idiotic assuming hypocritical asshole mistakes from that run.

  11. #11 by Tam on November 15, 2010 - 5:41 pm

    @Suicidal Zebra: “The difference is that when we move from merely online diarist to purveyor of opinion and advice we have a responsibility to give good advice and set a good example for those we profess to advise, to the best of our ability.”

    Yes but he offers advice on being a hunter, not on moral conduct. I know I couldn’t solo a 5-man heroic boss on *any* of my characters – I am impressed that he tried, and made a damn good stab at it, that doesn’t mean I’m going to ask him what to buy my Grandmother for Christmas but it certainly testifies to his ability to play a hunter.

    It concerns we when people talk about “setting a good example” since there is no universally agreed standard of what a good example would be. It always means “acts the way I think they should.” Or to put it less aggressively “acts in accordance with my perception of moral behaviour.”

    By this logic, Gelvon should not be permitted to do any of the things he does – his advice on making gold and, ironically, managing pugs is always sound, but many find his morality objectionable. Should he stop blogging as well because he sets a bad example?

    “I also have to say that we only have Frostheims word for the actions of the rest of the pug. As a self-confessed asshole, can he be trusted to relay the unvarnished truth if it would paint him in a negative light that even legions of ‘heh, indeed’-ing couldn’t rid him of.”

    This is a different issue, though, isn’t it? I mean, nobody’s blog offers the, err, unvarnished truth, and it is difficult to knowingly paint yourself in a negative light. Also it strikes me as rather unfair to argue, firstly, that he behaved badly in your opinion, secondly that in behaving badly in your opinion this makes him an unfit hunter blogger because he does not live up to an arbitrary moral standard that you have yourself invented for him, and finally that he was probably lying about it all anyway.

    @Validra. “The equivalent would be writing a book telling people how to do X. When people point out the flaws you then say that “I wasn’t intending to be a role model! THIS BOOK WAS MY DAIRY”. Yeah right”

    Errr, no, the equivalent would be writing a book telling peoplehow to do X and then having people challenge your right to write a book telling people who to do x because you’re gay. Being gay in no way impinges on your ability to tell people who to do X but quite a lot of people will argue that being gay is setting a bad example.

    Also Frost’s post was not “How to accidentally muck up a pug when they’ve been rude to you” it was “How Frost was a bit of an ass.” I trust most people have the intelligence to differentiate instruction from anecdote.

  12. #12 by Tam on November 15, 2010 - 5:43 pm

    Errr, sorry about invading your blog comments, Amber … like I say, I agree with the premise (Frost is a dick), I just disagree with the notion that we should hold some individuals to higher standards than other individuals, without questioning what this actually means.

  13. #13 by Tam on November 15, 2010 - 5:45 pm

    Also wtb edit function – I made a “who” for “how” typo about 80 times in that last comment (it’s late, I’m tired).

  14. #14 by Ama on November 15, 2010 - 6:21 pm

    I can see both sides of this story, and I don’t think there should be so much animosity betwixt the two viewpoints in question. It’s gotten to the point where you all should just agree to disagree, because I’m not sure that the talk-talk is getting anyone anywhere.

    My personal opinion is that FH is kind of a dick. Many of the comments on FH’s blog were pats on the back for what he did. I don’t think dickish behavior should solely get accolades. Amber has a right to say what she thinks of what he did and what he posted. That said, I don’t think that blog writers (whether they write guides or not) have a responsibility to not be dicks. If I don’t like reading things written by dicks then I don’t read those blogs. End of story.

    Personally, I’ve found this whole thing just fascinating for the yummy drama. Mmmm. /popcorn

    TLDR:
    1: FH has a right to write whatever he wants on his blog.
    2: Amber has a right to write whatever she wants on her blog.
    3: We don’t have to read either blog if we don’t like what they write.

  15. #15 by Dyna on November 15, 2010 - 9:18 pm

    One point that I don’t see having been raised here is that, while we have all made mistakes- we don’t generally glorify them in a public sphere.

    If Amber posted here about how she was tanking and one of the DPS said something she thought was dumb or offensive, so she pulled three rooms and dropped group out of pure spite, and then commented that that DPS was an asstard and they deserved what they got- I don’t think I’d be terribly impressed with her character as a tank and as a person. In fact, I’d be pretty disappointed, and question my desire to continue reading her blog.

    FH has a right to write whatever he wants, but I don’t think that it’s out of line for someone to say, ‘Hey. That isn’t cool. That isn’t right. Stop glorifying it.’ No one is STOPPING him from being an ass in the future, but they can sure as hell disapprove, and do so loudly- and publicly. That is THEIR perogative as members of the blogging community, to say that they do NOT condone dick-ish behaviour.

  16. #16 by Aoladari on November 15, 2010 - 10:53 pm

    @Ama- “That said, I don’t think that blog writers (whether they write guides or not) have a responsibility to not be dicks.”

    Perfectly driven home by the fact that Elitist Jerks exists. (I’m drawing a correlation b/w their “guides” and blogging that may or may not exist when you think about them. I see them as major contributors who aren’t ignored in the WoW web community.)

    However, they don’t go around advertising their Jerkhood in their daily in game activities (I don’t think anyway.. I’m not a big fan of their site, it reads like Greek to me half the time). They’re jerks on the boards, they tell you exactly how to post on their boards, make fun of people who don’t follow the rules, etc, but to my knowledge they don’t brag or advertise “How I was a dick to people in game today.”

    EJ is respected for number crunching and min/maxing guides and they can be used to teach people how to play their class…
    Bah.. I’ve lost my train of thought at this point, I think you get the idea.

  17. #17 by Salvaenus@DmF.EU on November 16, 2010 - 3:57 am

    Bloggers write, people read, none of this makes Bloggers public figures and none of this makes Bloggers responsible to a higher standard of conduct. We as a species should stop looking to the media for our role models and perhaps return to a time where our parents and grandparents took that position. On a side note Frostheim is an ass has always been an ass and will continue to be an ass… as a role model he does well as an example how not to treat others.

  18. #18 by Echo on November 16, 2010 - 4:41 am

    @Amber – I was going to post yesterday being a reader of yours and of frostheim’s but I figured the drama had run it’s course.

    Quite simply I believe you are drawing the wrong conclusion. Yes it was probably a bit douchebaggish to try and solo the boss but if he doesn’t know that the insanity is instance wide then is it really that bad a thing to do? No it’s not. Did the result significantly impact the rest of the group? Not really, a repair bill and a runback.

    Would it have been justified had it been deliberate? Trouble is it wasn’t – the whole point of the article was FH making fun of himself for being noobish so I doubt it’s fabricated – and it’s debatable depending on what YOUR morals are, even then.

    Dyna – well ofc. I don’t agree with what amber has written because I believe she’s wrong. Just like I think anyone pulling their moral guidance from a guide about the hunter class to be insane in the membrane.

    I’m not an asshole because I read EJ or FH, I’m that for other reasons :)

  19. #19 by Suicidal Zebra on November 16, 2010 - 9:11 am

    @Tam

    He advises on how to be a better hunter, and by extension a better player overall. Nothing he did in that group and subsequently posted about make him a better player, just yet another player with a huge ego and ignorance over boss mechanics. His ability to defeat 5-man bosses in the past and any supposed skill that represents are utterly irrelevant, if he wants to try something innovative (though soloing a boss is hardly that) fine but that’s what guild runs are for. Lets be honest though, his actions were a fit of petulance rather than being driven by a higher purpose.

    Gevlon is different. His goldmaking and ‘leadership’ advice absolutely relies an ultra-libertarian viewpoint, but being a libertarian doesn’t mean being morally bankrupt. He competes with other players, but that’s not the same thing as screwing them over. It’s easy to disagree with a post as being wrong in the facts or opinions it represents or contradictory on a point of logic, yet you’d have to tie yourself up in rhetorical knots to argue that this is the same as what Frostheim did. I may have missed a particular post where’s he’s undermined his own stated aim, unambiguously screwed over other people and then bragged about it, and if so point it out to me and I’ll mention that it puts a question mark over his suitability for a paid blogging position.

    Oh. Wait.

    “Also it strikes me as rather unfair to argue, firstly, that he behaved badly in your opinion*, secondly that in behaving badly in your opinion this makes him an unfit hunter blogger because he does not live up to an arbitrary moral standard that you have yourself invented for him, and finally that he was probably lying about it all anyway. ”

    If you act like an asshole and revel in your assholity (if that isn’t a word it damn well is now!) be prepared for people to suspect you of being an asshole. Part and parcel of that is they doubt your version of events, motivation and intent. If you don’t like that the solution is simple…. don’t act like an asshole.

    *Note: he behaved badly in his own opinion, not just in mine.

  20. #20 by Oestrus on November 16, 2010 - 10:08 am

    “It’s entirely legitimate for you to judge what Frost did here, or on any other occasion, dickish but it is at best disingenuous and at worst arrogant to draw no distinction between saying “don’t be a dick” and “behave the way I think you should behave.”

    Because you guys at Righteous Orbs have never done that before, right?

    :)

  21. #21 by Tam on November 16, 2010 - 10:47 am

    “Because you guys at Righteous Orbs have never done that before, right?”

    I’ve certainly never accused someone of setting a bad example, no. I call people dicks all the time, as is my inalienable right ;)

    @Suicidal Zebra
    “Lets be honest though, his actions were a fit of petulance rather than being driven by a higher purpose.”
    Agreed entirely – he himself admitted it. But we’re all petulant, especially when we’ve been treated badly – it’s entirely fair to condemn him *on that basis* but not to hold him to an arbitrary standard because he has a lot of readers. I mean, if I have 50 readers, does that mean I can be petulant? At what do you stop judging someone on the same terms as everyone else? I have no objection to anyone saying that Frost’s behaviour was dickish (it was) but I find it deeply disturbing that people want to hold him to some arbitrary standard of moral behaviour based on the fact he’s, apparently, a public figure. Dude, he’s a blogger with some readers, not the Pope. And unlike being the Pope, being a blogger comes with absolutely no pre-agreed moral standards.

    “He competes with other players, but that’s not the same thing as screwing them over”
    Actually a big part of Gevlon’s philosophy involves screwing over social players by taking advantage of the fact that altruism is a form of weakness. Not that I condemn that either.

    “I may have missed a particular post where’s he’s undermined his own stated aim, unambiguously screwed over other people and then bragged about it, ”
    Well, you could follow the de-volution of his ganking guild, which Chas wrote an extensive post about…. But this is irrelevant, the point here is that you’ve taken *your interpretation* of Frost’s post as fact. You say he “undermined his own stated aim, unambiguously screwed over other people and then bragged about it” but I say he “reacted badly to some people who were rude to him, accidentally wiped a group and wrote about it in a slightly smug manner.” If I was a more generous person I might even go with “he stood up for himself in a pug who were rude to him and accidentally wiped them.”

    “If you act like an asshole and revel in your assholity (if that isn’t a word it damn well is now!) be prepared for people to suspect you of being an asshole.”
    Yes but being an asshole and being a liar are not necessarily the same thing. You can’t just heap a bunch of moral failings on somebody because they did one thing you didn’t like. You’ll be claiming he sleeps with goats next, which could also be considered part of being an asshole if you’re defining “being an asshole” as “behaving in a way I don’t like.”

  22. #22 by Big Heals on November 16, 2010 - 11:03 am

    Why are bosses optional? They all give justice points. He assumes Old Kingdom will be a 2 or 3 boss run because it makes what he does seem more reasonable. This is disingenuous and just makes him look better in his story. Here’s the real story.

    “The queue took longer then I hoped. The random was Old Kingdom which would take too long. I hoped the party would just skip 2 or 3 bosses, but they didn’t. They wouldn’t do what I wanted so I wiped them by solo pulling the last boss without them. Isn’t being a dick fun.”

    I’m sure he could do worse, make is sound fun, and his fan boys would still think he’s great which just reinforces his bad behavior.

  23. #23 by Oestrus on November 16, 2010 - 11:14 am

    @ Tam: Perhaps I should clarify. “It’s entirely legitimate for you to judge what Frost did here, or on any other occasion, dickish but it is at best disingenuous and at worst arrogant to draw no distinction between saying “don’t be a dick” and “behave the way I think you should behave.

    Because you guys have never done that before, am I right?

  24. #24 by Natalie on November 16, 2010 - 12:02 pm

    You’re right; he was a dick. One day, he’ll be a dick to the wrong person, and that person will probably be packing. Hope it doesn’t happen but in this day and age, any person you meet could have a short temper.

  25. #25 by Tam on November 16, 2010 - 2:16 pm

    I need to get off Amber’s blog before she bans me, because that would make me very sad indeed. I feel like I’ve trespassed too much on her patience already. So, thank you Amber, and apologies. I’m going away now, I promise and when I next return it will be with tea and biscuits.

    @Oestrus, perhaps I should clarify. It is perfectly legitimate to call someone a dick for behaving in a manner you do not personally consider morally appropriate. But I also think it is fair to say that there are some absolutes which are not merely a matter of opinion – I am strongly against murder, for example and that’s not because I personally don’t like murders, it’s because murder is unequivocably, undeniably wrong. Being a bit of an arse is what it is and Frost’s behaviour is open to interpretation. If he’d murdered the pugees then we’d be having a different conversation now.
    However, this is a very different issue to the one at hand, which is: is it fair to judge some people – because of a perceived public position – by a different moral standard. I would posit “no, it is not” because the very nature of this moral standard is that it is arbitrary. Who get to set it? What counts as morally good in this context? These things mean different things to different people. Certain public positions contain an inherent moral framework – being Pope, for example, will likely interfere with your fornication schedule. Writing stuff and putting it on the internet? Not so much.

  26. #26 by Oestrus on November 16, 2010 - 2:21 pm

    Oh no, Tam, dear, you don’t get to leave just yet – lol

    You’re definitely using a lot of big words and forming some exquisite complete sentences. But you’re not really answering my question. I asked you if you felt that your blog has ever behaved in such a way to draw no distinction between saying “don’t be a dick” and “behave the way I think you should behave.” That’s the question I have been posing to you.

    You’re doing a lovely little dance around the question and I would simply like to hear your thoughts on that. You keep gravitating back towards the state of Frostheim and what we all thought of him. That’s super. We’re not talking about him now, we’re talking about you and how I feel you have done the exact same thing that you do not feel is OK for others to do. Do you see the distinction?

    If you would rather not discuss this further on Amber’s blog, which I completely understand – you can drop me an e-mail with the answer to my question or we can communicate this some other way. But I do feel I’m asking a sound question and a sound response from you would be positively lovely.

    Thank you.

  27. #27 by Lique on November 17, 2010 - 11:32 am

    @Tam because he makes more sense to me than anybody else on this post and to the rest of you because I really just don’t get it:
    Maybe I AM too generous of a person, but “he stood up for himself in a pug who were rude to him and accidentally wiped them” is EXACTLY what I would say happened in the raid. I would really, really like to understand why no one else sees it that way. I’ve read all the posts of people who think he’s a dick and I haven’t gotten any understanding of why people are so upset about his behavior. It was arrogant to assume he could take down the last boss solo, yes, but in the whole thing, he didn’t do anything to purposely hurt someone. He even felt bad (said he was “a bit of an ass”) when his actions did, in fact, hurt someone. What part of this is “deliberately hurting his party members” that most of you seem to be so angry about?

    @Big Heals: “The queue took longer then I hoped. The random was Old Kingdom which would take too long. I hoped the party would just skip 2 or 3 bosses, but they didn’t. They wouldn’t do what I wanted so I wiped them by solo pulling the last boss without them. Isn’t being a dick fun.”
    You forgot to include a lot of salient points in your summary of the raid. I would like to add:
    “The queue took longer then I hoped. The random was Old Kingdom which would take too long [is usually short because people skip a lot of bosses]. I hoped[assumed] the party would just skip 2 or 3 bosses, but they didn’t. [one of the puggies asked to do them all. I requested that we not because I didn’t have time to do them all. They didn’t say anything in response, so I assumed (incorrectly, apparently) that that meant they agreed. The rest of the group ended up (through a very roundabout method) at the other bosses while leaving me to deal with adds. Then they were rude about asking me to do what they wanted.] They[I] wouldn’t do what I[they] wanted so I wiped them by[decided to] solo pull the last boss without them [hoping to get done with my instance faster without hurting anyone else]. Isn’t being a dick fun.[I didn’t mean for them to die, that made me feel like a jerk.]”

    As far as I can see, the fact that he admitted to thinking of himself as an ass made just about everyone here 10 times more likely to think of him as a “real asshole.”

  28. #28 by Lique on November 17, 2010 - 11:36 am

    “I haven’t gotten any understanding of why people are so upset about his behavior.” All I’ve seen in people’s posts was “what he did was dickish.” I don’t argue you your right to think that what he did was dickish, but I really would like an explanation of what was bad about it (to you, any of you). It looks a lot more like “independent” to me right up until he accidentally got everyone killed. But how was he to know that it would kill them? Or are you upset that he should never have tried something that might even have been slightly dangerous to his fellow puggies without their approval?

  29. #29 by Rilgon Arcsinh on November 17, 2010 - 4:07 pm

    “He advises on how to be a better hunter”

    THAT’S debateable.

  30. #30 by Russ on November 18, 2010 - 6:41 pm

    @Natalie: What a horrible thought.

    Just because Frost decided to go his own way in a group instance, in a game, doesn’t mean he’s likely to “be a dick” to someone who’s “packing” in real life, to the point where the person might use what he’s carrying against him. Hopefully, this never, ever happens, to him or anyone else who has commented here. Nobody deserves to be shot/killed/hurt for “being a dick.”

    It’s interesting that some of the discussion about this situation, around the blogosphere, has turned personal, from “Frost was a bit of an ass” to “Frost is an ass.” From my point of view, I think it’s important to remember that people have different kinds of make-ups. Some people are more comfortable with making mistakes or poor decisions – don’t beat themselves up about things – and it seems like Frostheim is one of those people. Sometimes I wish that I could be like that; if I were in Frost’s situation, and made his decision, I would have felt a lot of guilt/regret about it for a while, and I probably wouldn’t have put it out there for others to judge. But not all people are the same.

    Just a thought. Good post, Amber.

  1. Sometimes, you have to be a jerk. « A High Latency Life

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