Sounds silly that we’d need an argument FOR DBM, right? I mean, who DOESN’T use DBM, or their favorite equivilant?
Yeah, about that. Anyone who has ever tried to require an addon knows that someone, somewhere, will bitch about it. Back in BoO I tried to make everyone use DBM, but it was really hard when my co-GM couldn’t be arsed to use it himself.
“You don’t notice,” he’d brag. “I know the fights.”
“Steve,” I said wearily, or more often angrily, “I notice every single god damn time you ask how long it is until something happens and I have to look at my DBM timers and tell you.”
He may have gotten away with that in Wrath, but such an attitude is a total no-go in Cata. Fights are chaotic with MANY things to pay attention to, and stay out of–or in! Add in trying to keep on top of your rotation and procs an you’re going to miss some things.
No, you will. You WILL. You absofuckingloutely WILL, stop arguing with me–oh here, look. IT’S SCIENCE.
“Well,” some of the problem children may splutter, “SOME people notice. SOME people can split their attention better. I’m one of them.”
Really? Every single fight? You’re never tired or distracted or have a cat walk in front of you or otherwise need of GIANT BLUE TEXT?
I call bullshit.
Go install the god damned mod.
(Thankfully I don’t have this problem with anyone in SiB, but I figured that someone, somewhere…)
I Like Bubbles 
#1 by Krikket on April 22, 2011 - 9:48 am
So sometimes? You need to swap a glyph right before a fight. And sometimes? Your UI will tell you that there’s an addon blocking that functionality, so you disable it because god damn it, YOU NEED TO CHANGE THAT GLYPH. When you screen reloads, all looks fine, so in the interest of not slowing down the raid, you just figure you’ll live without it, whatever it was.
And then you realize, when people are constantly screaming at you to MOVE that the addon you “disabled” was DBM, and since you haven’t done Cho’Gall attempt in like forever, you totally forgot that there’s a shadow-crash like mechanic you’re supposed to be avoiding, and you stand in every fucking one of them like a noob because you’re watching 18 other things, and that was one mechanic you spaced on. Good job you.
… yeah, I don’t need an argument *for* DBM.
#2 by Xerian on April 22, 2011 - 9:52 am
@ Krikket
This is a glyph UI bug in blizzards dropdown menu code same thing that taints setfocus no matter what unit frame you use. If dbm hadn’t been enabled, yu still would have tainted, and it would have blamed a different addon. The reason it worked when you disabled is actually the reloadui that did it. basically, it works after reloadui/login, but wilkl fail as soon as ANY addon uses a drop down menu of it’s own, then blizzards dropdown menu code will taint the next time you use it (ie glyph, set focus, use flare).
http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/deadly-boss-mods.aspx?CommentPage=3#935908
#3 by Steve Hall on April 22, 2011 - 9:59 am
“Install the damn mod. Or raid somewhere else: We don’t need to carry your lazy ass.” — The Kestrelator
#4 by repgrind on April 22, 2011 - 10:47 am
Unfortunately, I do know more than one of those someones, somewheres. They are not allowed in our raid.
A case could also be made for healers needing to have a raid frame addon of some type, although I’ve heard that the default ones are at least passable now.
#5 by Thisius on April 22, 2011 - 10:58 am
I am an AddOn addict, my guild has been trying to get me to see someone about it, so I naturally LOVE boss mod addons. I knew when I started my guild up that people vary wildly in their acceptance and understanding of addons, so I made an effort to not require any for my raiders. I did however never shy away from calling people out who can’t do their job appropriately. If I have someone who can’t handle a fight, I remind them over and over again that a boss mod could help here, and if you can’t perform in the fight with or without the mod, I might have to replace you with someone who can.
Now if I could get people to setup their boss mods so they can easily and quickly see the information that would be wonderful. Almost everyone uses the mod, but I still find myself having to call out timer countdowns for people or they miss it.
#6 by Matt on April 22, 2011 - 11:12 am
Back in BC, I raided a lot, and never used DBM or anything like it, and I did great. I knew the fights inside and out after 1 attempt, I have great situational awareness, and I pay attention.
Same for a lot of WotLK, did great just by using my eyes.
Then I installed it just to see what all the hoopla was about. Didn’t make me any better, but it did make it a lot easier, being able to anticipate stuff rather than react to it, not really having to pay attention to the whole screen, just a few important portions, etc.
Really, the only people who won’t install it are either people whos computers end with 86 or people who bitch about the demise of horse drawn transportation and like to relive “the good old days”. F that S, use it, even if you are good (or amazing, like me) it makes life easier.
#7 by Stormy on April 22, 2011 - 11:13 am
@Thisius “Now if I could get people to setup their boss mods so they can easily and quickly see the information that would be wonderful. Almost everyone uses the mod, but I still find myself having to call out timer countdowns for people or they miss it.”
I’ve always wanted to pay someone to set up a UI for me that’s better than the crappy setup I have. I never understood why UI mods never came with instructions. Power Auras? Fugghedaboudit. Making DBM actually show things in a useful fashion? Feh. Setting up Bartender so that I don’t have six things overlapping and me going “OHCRAPWHATDOIDO?!” when someone loots during combat and the loot window covers up my bars? Notgonnahappen.
In other words, UI mods are just…beyond some of us.
#8 by Bartokomous on April 22, 2011 - 11:33 am
Just installing DBM isn’t nearly enough, you really have to work on the setup to make sure you’re getting the info you actually need for each fight in a part of the screen where you can see it. Otherwise your screen will be filled with so many warnings and messages your brain will just start to tune them out so you don’t forget your priorities while reading all the damn text on your screen.
I had to customize DBM to stop telling me certain things and make sure it was warning me to interrupt spells that it was ignoring. Once you get it set up just right it’s invaluable.. but I think if you just go with a raw install it can be more a hindrance than anything else.
#9 by Bartokomous on April 22, 2011 - 11:44 am
” I never understood why UI mods never came with instructions.”
Because most of these mods are being written by poor (in money and time) students who probably wouldn’t be able to write a decent set of instructions even if they tried. Even comparing the UIs in the configs of different addons shows that some people are just good with that stuff while others are pure coders lol.
Hell, just figuring out how to download and install certain addons from certain sites is a feat all by itself.
Thankfully for Power Auras there are many premade setups for classes/specs that are very nice that you can find all over forums and import. I’d never have time to set that thing up on my own.
#10 by Sunnier on April 22, 2011 - 11:47 am
Back in WotLK, we had a raider who refused to use DBM. He was actually a very good raider, one of our best. He could do just fine without a boss mod. However, he didn’t realize that it’s not just him the mod helped out. For example, on Vezax, boss mods usually have the person say “Shadow Crash on me!” Raiders learn to expect that speech bubble, and know to run out when they see it. But if a raider doesn’t have the mod, no speech bubble, and in this case everyone died once this particular DBM-less raider was the target of Shadow Crash.
So really, even if you don’t think you need DBM, get it to help the rest of your raiders out. Take a hit for the team.
#11 by David The Machine on April 22, 2011 - 8:35 pm
BigWigs user in da house!
So I don’t use DBM. The only thing I’m missing out on is the trash respawn timer.
While I could list the benefits of BigWigs here, it’s easy to install, and easy to explore its features, go try it!
#12 by Brian on April 24, 2011 - 10:14 am
I’d look at the argument for DBM from the other side and say that “I can do just fine without DBM” is NOT an argument for not using it. *I* can do “just fine” with poorly enchanted, gemmed and reforged gear. Hell, one time I left a piece of holiday gear equipped for a boss or two in ICC, and I did middle of the pack DPS…does that mean I should use that piece of gear all the time, since I did “just fine”?
Obviously not, because the point of raiding is to do your best. Maybe you can do OK without DBM, but you could almost certainly do better if you use it.
#13 by Lique on April 26, 2011 - 10:54 am
@Krikket – If you close and reopen the glyph window, it usually works without disabling anything. At least, I don’t purposely disable anything and it works the second time.
@Amber – For people like Steve, just tell him you’re not going to tell him how long until something because you got it off of something he refuses to use. You have a moral imperative not to tell him because of his devotion to avoiding boss mod use.
#14 by Brent on April 28, 2011 - 10:03 pm
I am the GM. I say you will have it and keep it updated. I have /dbm version.
I win.
#15 by Evee on May 3, 2011 - 6:44 pm
While I agree that DBM and it’s counterparts are wonderful tools
for some they pose more a distraction than actual aid
when I have it on i get so distracted by timers and whatnot I sometimes lose my actual place in a fight, as a dps this isn’t too much of a big deal jsut a dps loss
but as a tank it’s people dying
as a healer it’s probably multiple people dying
I personally am better off without it
A good raid is like playing music, once you know a song you don’t need sheet music anymore
I just happen to be better at learning it by ear instead