Dear DPS in Full PVP Gear

ETA: If you can go into a heroic in pvp gear and do 15k DPS, this post is not about you.  Also, there’s a line between “I am a PVPer stepping into PvE content” and “I’m a PvEr who bought these blues off the AH when I dinged 85 and didn’t bother to reforge, gem, or enchant anything, so that I could have random people carry me through heroics.” It is the latter who have sparked my ire.

Dear DPS in Full PVP Gear,

Look, I realize that using PVP gear to cheese the ilevel requirements is a quick and easy way into the new heroics. Really, I do–see my own pvp shoulders?  But please understand one thing: the heroics themselves will not be quick and easy while you’re limping along doing less than half of the DPS of everyone else. 9k is not an acceptable amount of DPS.

You can’t count on some uber DPS trying to cap VP coming along and carrying your sorry, lazy ass. Murphy’s Law states that you will be tossed in a group with all or one of the following:

  • other DPS doing the exact same thing and sucking just as hard
  • someone on an alt still figuring out WTF they are doing
  • some fucking idiot who thinks that wearing half healing and/or tanking gear to DPS is somehow fucking hunky dory
  • someone with 2 FPS
  • someone with perfectly good gear who is just That Guy who is terrible no matter what

And then things won’t die fast at all and your healer will run out of mana healing these super long fights while the 2 fps guy stands in bad and OH GOD THE PAIN WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?!

Newsflash: the normal heroics are STILL IN THE GAME.

GO FUCKING RUN THEM YOU LAZY ASS COCKKNOB.

Get some other heroic loot and some JP stuff and then maybe, just maybe, you can fucking SUPPLEMENT your shit with pvp gear to cheese the last bit of ilevel, okay?

BUT YOU REALLY CAN’T WEAR JUST PVP GEAR AND NOT MAKE ME WANT TO RIP OUR YOUR ANUS VIA YOUR THROAT.

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  1. #1 by Copernicus on January 5, 2012 - 1:10 pm

    I do better DPS in my 390+ PvP gear than I do in my 358ish PvE gear. I do, however, switch from frost to arcane when I do instances. So I’m not a total PvP scrub.

  2. #2 by telanarra on January 5, 2012 - 1:32 pm

    Personally I wish pvp was ilvl0!

  3. #3 by Russ on January 5, 2012 - 1:36 pm

    It’s pretty easy for a competent player to do quite a bit more than 9k in today’s PvP gear, particularly if it’s gemmed and enchanted. I’ve done it many times, particularly when I’ve switched to feral for the Erudax fight back when that was somewhat current (and done 18k with 3100 resilience). The PvP gear out there is pretty damn good right now, particularly for DPSers, with all of the +Agi/+Str/+Int on it.

    Chances are, the person(s) who sparked your wrath is(are) also one or more of what you mentioned above (poor player, low fps, a new player, lazy, etc.).

  4. #4 by ILikeBubbles on January 5, 2012 - 1:45 pm

    @Russ, see amendment at top of post!

  5. #5 by Russ on January 5, 2012 - 1:54 pm

    Ah, right on :) I started my comment, then went away from the computer for a while, then finished it, no refresh.

    I understand where you’re coming from though. There are a couple of hunters on my server who actually bought Int/Spirit mail from rep vendors(!!) in order to get into heroics at the beginning of the expansion. That, and the PvP blue gear lazy butts, etc. – it’s all stuff that makes me shake my head in wonder!

  6. #6 by SirFWALGMan on January 5, 2012 - 4:59 pm

    Normally when I run these my DK does something between 16k and 21k… little less if I decide to blood tank.. but everyone else in the group is down around the 10k level and sometimes I see a 6k… and I will not even talk about the guild run (not my guild theirs) where they wanted me to heal through Tyrande with a 4k dps and a sucky tank I had to cast on every 2 seconds or he would die on my disc priest which is either not so good with AOE or I am not so good with AOE then I quit group, requeue and get them AGAIN!!!!

    So what is the cutoff amount? I have had no issues with 10k+ dps people. The occasional 50k guy is really nice too. XD.

    As far as running the old Heroics. OMFG. Those things are SO long and suck so bad. It is almost like doing a mini-raid. If I can get into the new ones, get better gear, have quicker runs, I am doing it. Blizzard set the new dungeons up so you can gear your entry level 85 n00b quickly I think. It makes really good players tear their hair out but that is the design by Blizzard I think. I mean they made it too easy to not be on purpose. I spend like 10K on a new guy in the AH and I am ready to go. Some characters this means I do ok DPS at like 10K, and others I might do a lot more, and some I do less which I agree is not very fair…

  7. #7 by tehshiv on January 5, 2012 - 6:45 pm

    Here’s a sad observation, and I might just be wrong, but…the new heroics seem WAAAY easier than the old ones. At least to me, for whatever reason. Could be that better tanks are queued for the new ones only (I play a disc priest, so this affects me more than bad dps…imo). Or it could be that blizz tuned them down quite a bit compared to say ZG/ZA. I stepped into those and they seemed far more difficult than the new heroics. Oh, and on the subject of the shitty dps-ers. I just let them die rather than waste the mana on them. You can nearly 3 man the new heroics if properly geared/played, so hopefully you got a good tank and at least one good dps…let the guy in blues die and pretty soon they’ll stop queueing because they don’t have gold for repairs.

  8. #8 by Elladrion on January 5, 2012 - 8:42 pm

    My only problem with telling them to run normal heroics is that you can’t. If you queue for a random heroic, and you have the ilevel, you get stuck in whatever comes up next, and so many people are running the new heroics that you usually get stuck in a new heroic. I don’t know why blizzard thought that would be a good idea, but there’s not much you can do about it, you’re either stuck sucking or dropping and getting a half hour debuff on top of however long it took to get in.

    Not that I’m defending the people that are actively cheesing the system, screw those guys

  9. #9 by Seerath on January 5, 2012 - 11:16 pm

    Im really not sure how you get so many terrible rogues, I mean ive seen plenty of them too but for me its usually the arcane mages or the shadow priests that suck in my groups (What’s a DoT, says the goat spamming mind spike on bosses -_-)
    And even in full blue pvp gear (weapons are a factoring admittedly) 15k is possible on my fights in those heroics
    Now the worst part of this is as someone who has main toon as a rogue for 5 years.
    Rogues at a basic capacity (incoming price on my main’s head >__>

  10. #10 by Leit on January 6, 2012 - 2:58 am

    Meh, I’m not bothered by the DPS in PvP gear. I’m worried about the fact that any number of DK *tanks* think that queueing in full PvP is acceptable. Guys, please, get some damn avoidance. Yes, I’m sure your 3k resi and self-healing makes you unkillable in the middle of WSG, but those mobs over there? Resi does fuck-all against them, and they will grind you into a fine paste.

  11. #11 by Zy on January 7, 2012 - 6:51 pm

    The DPS in PvP gear bug me but not nearly as much as the Tanks in PvP gear. I had a warrior tank yesterday who was absolutely terrible, he wasn’t hitting anything, wasn’t even targeting mobs at times and he was taking TONS of damage on the rare occasion he was holding any sort of aggro. One of the DPS started to blame me for the tank’s health taking scary dives because my priest is still wearing PvP shoulders (damn you Murzond! 11 kills and he has yet to drop the shoulders). Nevermind my ilvl is 379 and I’ve got the T12 two piece set bonus so there is NO WAY I should be running out of mana. Then just as I was about to drop group the DPS suddenly stopped and a votekick for the tank appeared on the screen. The DPS then whispered me and apologized profusely because he’d inspected the tank and yes, the tank was indeed in PvP blues with nothing gemmed or enchanted. We got a druid tank as a replacement who warned us he was ‘new to this’ and ‘kind of undergeared’. We breezed thru the instance beautifully after that, everyone left on good terms.

    That’s not even my worst story,don’t get me started on the DK tanks. Long story short as long as it’s only one DPS and they aren’t being rude or standing in the bad I’m not going to make an issue of it. I know I’ve been carried a time or two. If all three of the DPS are doing it? Well those are the times I politely drop group and go play another toon for a bit. It’s not worth the aggravation.

  12. #12 by LabRat on January 9, 2012 - 12:53 pm

    If I didn’t know your characters’ names I’d swear you were my healer last night.

    All three of the DPS were cheesing with almost entirely PvP gear, and while one of them was a goodish player (he could put out numbers, but he couldn’t not stand in the fire), the other two were terrible players on top of it.

    Pero’than took more than five minutes. The warlock who could put out good numbers immediately died to the eye and was still top DPS at the end of the fight behind me, the tank. The healer dropped without a word afterward. I went next. : /

  13. #13 by Birgitta on January 10, 2012 - 7:11 am

    Noob question: What is FPS?

    Next question: Shall I stop doing instances?
    My dps is not higher than 10 k (ok, 11 with wind in my back); I’m a slow learner, it takes me time to learn an encounter; I detest going random hc cause I’m afraid that I will end up in DM or SFK (which I can’t go “normal”). My God is GTFO. Nad I am “That Guy” (girl). And it will be even harder to become anything more than this – cause I can’t handle all über-skilled people telling you to stuff. Moment 22.
    Shall I stop playing all over or just start a new alt when I hit 85?

  14. #14 by Wow Echoes on January 10, 2012 - 11:04 am

    The problem may be that the game does not have a more sophisticated system for checking gear requirements for PvE instances. Surely, it is not that difficult for the developers to identify PvP gear and adjust its item level accordingly.

  15. #15 by Copernicus on January 10, 2012 - 4:36 pm

    I think we’ve established it’s the player and not the gear. A poor player in PvE gear is still a poor player; they just have slightly higher DPS and can be carried easier.

    To Birgitta: FPS means Frames per Second. Also, if you’re still learning, you’re probably better off getting into a small guild that runs heroics together. They’re more likely to help you get better, and not write you off immediately as hopeless.

  16. #16 by Leit on January 11, 2012 - 3:56 am

    FPS or Frames per Second is a measure of how quickly your computer can draw the game world. Basically, the animation effect is achieved by drawing a scene over and over a number of times per second with minute changes happening every time. Each draw is called a frame.

    High FPS means animation looks smoother, so you pick out details and changes more easily. Low FPS usually comes with input lag – basically, keys/clicks not doing what you want when you want it – thrown on top of the more difficult change management. Basically, even if you have to make things less pretty to make it easier for your computer to draw the scenes, you’ll always want higher FPS in dungeons.

    If you’re still in standard heroics – and it sounds like you are – then 10k is actually fine. You’ll want to ramp that up going into ZA, ZG or the HoT heroics, though. Having GTFO already makes you not that guy. That guy stands in a one-shot and expects the healer to deal with it.

    The biggest thing is that if someone’s giving you advice – and I mean advice, not a diatribe on your sexual inadequacies mixed with superiority complex and the occasional tidbit that they expect you to decode on ElitistJerks – then please listen. Players helping players is how the game works best. It wouldn’t hurt to have a look at least at the stat and rotation priority sections of your class writeup at EJ, though.

  17. #17 by Xal on January 11, 2012 - 8:47 am

    First time commenter (commentor?) – but thought Birgitta might like to know about a watered down elitist jerks site, http://www.noxxic.com – its nice and simple and not too far off the mark for end-game PVE advice :D

  18. #18 by Kalven on January 11, 2012 - 10:55 am

    Funny, I usually want to rip out their throats via their anus.

  19. #19 by Will Fife (@sarlalian) on January 13, 2012 - 2:38 pm

    The problem isn’t the PVP gear, at least not on DPS. In 377 blue PVP gear on my mage, I was pulling 15+k depending on the fight, and thats on a toon that I picked up again at level 75 to pvp with some friends. The problem is that typically the people doing this are just plain bad. 9K was achievable in 346 blues, the 377 pvp gear is way better than those blues. It is a different story with healers and tanks. Tanks need the defensive stats more than DPS need the offensive stats, and healers.. dear god, they need the spirit, that is missing on so many pvp pieces.

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